OT: 2018-19 NBA Thread.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I would just like to draw attention to the rolling trash fire that is the Cleveland Cavaliers, and propose that we retroactively return the last 4 MVP awards to LeBron for dragging that fetid corpse of a franchise to the Finals for 4 straight years.

That's pretty funny. Don't really have any guesses about the MVP. Although, no one seems to have mentioned Jokic (unless I missed it)

I think Golden State will meet Boston and I think basketball fans everywhere will rejoice. Speaking of Jokic, how fortunate we are that the days of plodding, lumbering big men like Joe Klein, John (Contract) Koncac and Mark Eaton seem to be a thing of the past.

On that note, I always had a hard time watching Shaq operate in the post. It puts the artistry of Embiid, Jokic, KAT and others in stark relief.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

On that note, I always had a hard time watching Shaq operate in the post. It puts the artistry of Embiid, Jokic, KAT and others in stark relief.

There were definitely a lot of early years there where nobody was mistaking anything Shaq did for "finesse".

Didn't seem to stop him from dominating though. And in fairness, he got better...eventually.

While I'd much rather watch a guy who can score via skill, athleticism, and a refined hybrid of dance+magic versus a brute who scores due to pure size & strength, it's perhaps worth noting that none of the other Big Guys® were as big & strong as Shaq, and/or as capable of putting the ball in the hole as often.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

There were definitely a lot of early years there where nobody was mistaking anything Shaq did for "finesse".

Didn't seem to stop him from dominating though. And in fairness, he got better...eventually.

While I'd much rather watch a guy who can score via skill, athleticism, and a refined hybrid of dance+magic versus a brute who scores due to pure size & strength, it's perhaps worth noting that none of the other Big Guys® were as big & strong as Shaq, and/or as capable of putting the ball in the hole as often.

Hi Bob -

Hakeem Olajuwon. 'Nuff said.

[Jaybee]

I've always thought of Shaq as an extreme outlier in a league full of extreme outliers. Attributing his success to his size and strength only sells him short, IMO. He was also incredibly light on his feet for a 300+ lb. human and would pretty routinely put a nice spin move or drop step on his fellow centers that would end in an and-one dunk with another really large human draped on his back. I won't penalize him for not developing a McHale-esque repertoire of moves, mostly because the one or two moves he had were essentially unstoppable. He is, depending on how you feel about Wilt, either the 3rd or 4th best center ever to play in the NBA.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

I've always thought of Shaq as an extreme outlier in a league full of extreme outliers. Attributing his success to his size and strength only sells him short, IMO. He was also incredibly light on his feet for a 300+ lb. human and would pretty routinely put a nice spin move or drop step on his fellow centers that would end in an and-one dunk with another really large human draped on his back. I won't penalize him for not developing a McHale-esque repertoire of moves, mostly because the one or two moves he had were essentially unstoppable. He is, depending on how you feel about Wilt, either the 3rd or 4th best center ever to play in the NBA.

1) Russell
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Hakeem
5) Shaq

If you're judging by the aesthetic appeal of the greatest, I'd rank the Admiral and Walton higher than Shaq as well...

[kevinvc]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

1) Russell
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Hakeem
5) Shaq

If you're judging by the aesthetic appeal of the greatest, I'd rank the Admiral and Walton higher than Shaq as well...

Can't really argue with the list, although I might change the ranking a bit. What I find interesting are the "what ifs". Yao Ming and Sabonis would both likely be in the top 5 if they had come to the NBA sooner (both) and hadn't been put through the meat grinder of the Chinese system (Yao).

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by kevinvc

Can't really argue with the list, although I might change the ranking a bit. What I find interesting are the "what ifs". Yao Ming and Sabonis would both likely be in the top 5 if they had come to the NBA sooner (both) and hadn't been put through the meat grinder of the Chinese system (Yao).

Check out the grainy videos of Sabonis schooling the U.S. in '88 (including Robinson) Full repertoire. And with a mullet that would make Michael Bolton weep with envy ...

[boomforeal]

i've been listening to people talking about the buttler trade for a few days now and i've got a take for y'all: it's going to end up being way better for minesotta than phily. i think people wildly underestimate roco and the homie's importance to that team, in terms of depth, defence, playmaking, grit and chemistry. they're going to fit around towns and wiggins seamlessly, and lift the the wolves' spirit. meanwhile buttler is going to be a horrible fit in phily, in terms of both his playing style and outsized personality. that team is going to burn

i'm picking minnesota to make the playoffs. i think phily willl to, but as a bottom-half seed

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Don't really have any guesses about the MVP. Although, no one seems to have mentioned Jokic (unless I missed it)

ahem

Originally Posted by boomforeal

i might also put money on jokic at 100-1. if he plays this year like he did on the back 9 of last season he'll deserve to be considered

y'all shaq haters are crazy. during the three-peat i rooted against LA every year in the finals - couldn't stand the personalities on that team, jackson's smugness, the cheesy drama, or the mindless repetitive simplicity and lack of fit of the triangle offence. but watching shaq get the ball in the the post, hammering guys with his size and a few hard dribbles and then spinning or drop stepping like a ballerina... breathtaking, pure inevitability; better than the dreamshake imo. i'd rank it my 3rd favourite basketball viewing experience with curry going off being 1st and everything michael did in the playoffs 2nd

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by boomforeal

i've been listening to people talking about the buttler trade for a few days now and i've got a take for y'all: it's going to end up being way better for minesotta than phily. i think people wildly underestimate roco and the homie's importance to that team, in terms of depth, defence, playmaking, grit and chemistry. they're going to fit around towns and wiggins seamlessly, and lift the the wolves' spirit. meanwhile buttler is going to be a horrible fit in phily, in terms of both his playing style and outsized personality. that team is going to burn

i'm picking minnesota to make the playoffs. i think phily willl to, but as a bottom-half seed



ahem



y'all shaq haters are crazy. during the three-peat i rooted against LA every year in the finals - couldn't stand the personalities on that team, jackson's smugness, the cheesy drama, or the mindless repetitive simplicity and lack of fit of the triangle offence. but watching shaq get the ball in the the post, hammering guys with his size and a few hard dribbles and then spinning or drop stepping like a ballerina... breathtaking, pure inevitability; better than the dreamshake imo. i'd rank it my 3rd favourite basketball viewing experience with curry going off being 1st and everything michael did in the playoffs 2nd

Boom -

Really can't figure out why Butler flamed out in Minny. Great 2-way player.
Re: Shaq. Pure inevitability, yes. But can't get past the aesthetics. The Knicks were one of the most successful teams of the 90s. Watch the highlights just before bedtime ...

[Jaybee]

Butler flamed out in Minny because he is a balls-to-the-wall asshole in the mold of Kobe or Jordan without the resume to support it, and expects the same attitude out of his teammates. Probably a top 10 player if we are valuing defense as much as offense, but he can't be easy to work with.

I agree with Boom that the fit in Philly is bad at best. They need another move to get someone besides Redick that can shoot and play off the ball, and Fultz is pretty much as good as gone now, IMO.

Kyrie v. Kawhi was fun tonight. Can't wait for a whole playoff series of Leonard guarding Kyrie in crunch time.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Kyrie v. Kawhi was fun tonight. Can't wait for a whole playoff series of Leonard guarding Kyrie in crunch time.

That was fun to watch. Kyrie was on fire. But there were two other moments that gave Celtic fans hope. When Kyrie hit an open Horford for a jumper and when Tatum drove to the hole in crunch time. The C’s have been out of sync all year. Last night might be a glimpse of finding their way.

[akelman]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

That was fun to watch. Kyrie was on fire. But there were two other moments that gave Celtic fans hope. When Kyrie hit an open Horford for a jumper and when Tatum drove to the hole in crunch time. The C’s have been out of sync all year. Last night might be a glimpse of finding their way.

It was also nice to see Hayward close out a game. It's still a bit painful to watch him play so far below the rim and without any apparent burst, but at least he's begun to settle in on defense, is finding open teammates with nice passes, and seems to be starting to hit some shots while in rhythm.

[Climb01742]

Originally Posted by akelman

It was also nice to see Hayward close out a game. It's still a bit painful to watch him play so far below the rim and without any apparent burst, but at least he's begun to settle in on defense, is finding open teammates with nice passes, and seems to be starting to hit some shots while in rhythm.

Very true. His passes were crucial. He definitely looked more comfortable than he has all season. Gotta feel for him. As hard as it is to come back physically, I can’t imagine the mental hurdles he’s trying to clear. His injury was horrific.

[akelman]

Originally Posted by Climb01742

Very true. His passes were crucial. He definitely looked more comfortable than he has all season. Gotta feel for him. As hard as it is to come back physically, I can’t imagine the mental hurdles he’s trying to clear. His injury was horrific.

Absolutely. I was watching the game in which he got hurt with my kids. Horrible stuff (not so much my kids -- usually). I wish him the very best with his recovery and hope he can work himself all the way back some time this season.

[Jaybee]

After chewing on the Toronto-Boston game a little more, I am starting to think the Raptors have to really like where they are at at this point in the season. Kyrie is a transcendent scorer when he's hot, but if we are extrapolating to May, I don't think that Boston wins a series by counting on Kyrie to go nuclear 4 of 7 times. Still early, small sample size, etc.

Speaking of small sample size, my Jimmy Butler/Philly take above is all kinds of wrong. Let's see what happens when the honeymoon period wears off.