#16
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Going through plans for everything on wheels (storage/shop tools/etc)to reconfigure the space when I need to work on different projects. I was planning on r19 for either ceiling or roof, r13 in the walls. Vapor barrier on both To the above for difficulty of installing drywall on the roof, there is only 41" between peak and ceiling, and half of the length has boards already nailed down for storage, so getting full sheets of drywall up would require some effort. Nothing terribly heavy is being stored, wheel/bike boxes, thule box, some beach stuff, vintage cannonball collection, etc. It's just me doing the work. I need to get it done as economically as possible, but also want it right, as doing it wrong would be even more expensive. Plenty to think about. I'll see if I can identify the type of wood based on the span chart linked above to see what load it can support. Maybe I'll have to find a different place to keep the cannonball collection. Last edited by cmbicycles; 09-24-2020 at 10:16 PM. |
#17
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OK, no exposed spray foam for you if you're welding out there. Whatever insulation you pick, how about metal -- like roofing or inexpensive siding? Already painted from the factory. Screw it up just like you would drywall, but be neat about it. Its much lighter than drywall.
Last edited by HenryA; 09-24-2020 at 10:48 PM. |
#18
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I had considered doing metal roofing for the ceiling, or underside of the roof itself. Maybe drywall on the walls and that up top, or just do the whole thing in corrugated metal something. Could run the electric over top of the metal using the flexible metal conduit. A friend is an electrician and offered to take a look to make recommendations so I'll see what he thinks as well.
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#19
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#20
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The 24" centers might make this a non-starter for the OP's application. The panels probably aren't rigid enough and would sag in the center. Also for sure wouldn't support the weight of insulation. |
#21
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The last shop I built for myself I put T-111 on the walls, just the least expensive I could find, and sheetrock above. I would do that again. That might be an option for you as well, once the T-111 is nailed up it's finished unless you really want to paint it. |
#22
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Codes may require a minimum R38 ceiling insulation. Local codes should also be considered for the wall and ceiling coverings. Sheet rock is usually required for fire protection. Other decorative materials go on top of that.
I acted as the general contractor when I built my home and 1800 square foot shop. With the high wind potential in the foothills of the front range, the roofs and walls had to be anchored to withstand 110 mph winds. A licensed engineer had to sign off on the design. In Larimer County, all builds must be designed by a licensed architect or engineer. Heated workshops must have R10 foundation insulation. I even have R10 foam panels under the 6 inch thick concrete floors in the workshop. I bought garage doors with the highest R value sold by Clopay, at the time. |
#23
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Back in the 1970s my Dad was in the plastics industry, he worked for the polystyrenics division of Arco Chemical selling the raw plastic material to molders and fabricators. So we got a ton of finished product to "beta test" in our home, including the then-nascent rigid foam insulation. Did our attic and garage entirely with 1" foam. I guess it worked. But since I've lived in apartment buildings for the 40+ years since and rarely hang out in Home Depot, I wasn't sure if expandable polystyrene foam was still a go-to for insulation materials. ===== Amusing story albeit thread-drift: When I was 18 and needed a job my Dad hooked me up with one of his clients who manufactured this aforementioned 1" rigid foam insulation. The way they make those 4'x8'x1" sheets of foam insulation is they mold a 4'x8'x3' block of solid foam -- fill the mold with loose polystyrene beads, blast it with steam to get the beads to expand/congeal -- and then they use an industrial hot wire knife to slice off 1" sheets. Anyway, the steam expansion process creates a lot of static electric cling, and so getting the 4'x8'x3' block out of the mold after it's been expanded is a bit of a chore. The job that I was offered involved whacking the side of this giant mold with a baseball bat to loosen the foam block until it fell out! $2.15/hour to smack a giant aluminum block with a baseball bat for 8 hours a day. I declined the offer. Last edited by Bob Ross; 09-25-2020 at 09:09 AM. |
#24
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My first pick is T111 as well. I like the somewhat rustic look when unpainted. Kinda like a fancy show horse stable look. |
#25
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Building engineer here...FWIW...
41" to peak seems marginal storage for the cost of putting the thermal boundary at the roof rather than the ceiling joists. If you have stuff to store up there that gets used once/year, think about an end wall access in the gable, above the thermal boundary. You want to make this enclosure airtight (and then consider a small energy recovery ventilator). The occupancy you describe won't generate much moisture and a vapor retarder is less critical than an air barrier, especially at the ceiling level. If you have the floor to ceiling height available, and because you have minimal insulation depth available under the existing storage "floor" in the attic, unless you remove them, I might put up a 1" layer of foil-faced polyisocyanurate insulation on the underside of the ceiling, tape the joints as an air barrier (foil takes care of the vapor issue too), strap over the foam with a true 1" thick strapping to run wiring in without penetrating the foam. Avoid recessed lights - use surface mount LED lights, some don't even require a shallow electrical box. I'd rather blow-in cellulose than batts, fills all the nooks and crannies. If using batts, mineral wool batts are stiffer and fill cavities better than fiberglass - Roxul is one brand. Same for the walls. Cut the batts carefully around wiring, and use an outlet cover gasket to limit air leakage. 1" of foam on the floor will make a big difference in comfort. You can get Huber Zip-R with OSB laminated to 1" foam (or more) and maybe glue it down. You'll need an additional surface on top of that for welding though! Maybe 1/2" cementboard, such as Durock. If you use a vapor retarder, in your climate I would choose Certainteed MemBrain, which is a variable permeability product. Tape it if it's the air barrier, otherwise not needed. Finally, a single zone minisplit heat pump will provide heating and cooling, and if you do a decent job on the thermal enclosure you can likely get away with a 9,000 BTU/hour unit, or even a 6,000 BTU/hour. The brands I use are Mitsubishi and Fujitsu. |
#26
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The other issue is the evaporating moisture off it. Evaporation is how cooling works if you'll recall 9th grade science and health classes.
Truth is probably closer to it won't change that much in temperature year round. But it's mass and evaporation process and your feet so close will be subject to temperature transfer. So sealing the surface, and wearing wool socks and good weather insulate shoes for prolonged standing help as much as anything. Unless you put a thermal reflective layer on top of an insulating layer, an 220v electrical heating mat grid and and convection friendly flooring layer.... The shoes and socks route will eat into your chi chi zoot bike budget less though....
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This foot tastes terrible! |
#27
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For all but the floor, NHAero has presented some very good ideas. The frugal solution to a cold concrete floor is wool socks.
If you heat and cool it even moderately, the air will exchange enough to keep humidity at an acceptable level. I have a dehumidifier running in my garage and its around 30% humidity in there now. No rust, no funk growing, reasonably comfortable and I live in a humid place. |
#28
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I dont know that I'll be able to make it completely airtight on the first phase as the windows aren't in the plan and aren't exactly airtight. I will be replacing the metal garage door with an insulated door, but windows will be phase two. The hope is just to make it comfortable enough to work in efficiently for now and leave some upgrades, like flooring and a mini-split system for later. There is only 95" from floor to bottom of the ceiling joists so can't do too much layering of floor and ceiling without bumping my head, I'd also need to reframe the side door to clear any raised flooring. I am not planning on recessed lighting. Its a workshop but was going to look into some more basic LED light options. Thank you for the options to consider. I appreciate it. Maybe I need to just knock it down and make it bigger... that seems the most economically sound(less) choice, but would let me net what I need from the space more easily. All it takes is money. lol. |
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