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  #46  
Old 12-06-2018, 10:05 PM
steelbikerider steelbikerider is offline
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My steel vs. carbon opinion.

I have 2 main rides, A 2017 Gallium Pro(Jelly Belly team spare frame) with 9000 DA and a 20 year year old custom Hans Schneider steel frame with DA 7900. Set-up is almost identical (13 vs 14 stem but reach is the same) and the only difference in frame geometry is a 1 degree steeper head tube on the Schneider (73 vs. 74).
The Argon has a nice ride - stable, quick and stiff but no comfort issues in a 100 mile ride and I would buy another one without hesitation when I need a new frame. It is a solid race bike I enjoy even though I no longer race.
When I ride hard, the Schneider makes me smile. Maybe it doesn't jump as quick when i close a gap in a paceline, maybe the front end flexes a hair when I dive into a corner and maybe it softens the harshness of the road but it feels like I'm riding a hot rod, a 2 wheel version of a 60's musclecar. It will just motor on, no matter what and is still is a way better bike than I am a rider.
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  #47  
Old 12-07-2018, 03:22 AM
ultraman6970 ultraman6970 is offline
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THe 1st thing the op needs to do is to measure the wheelbase of those bikes, big chance the derosa-ish has a longer wheelbase, 1 or 3 cm makes a difference in the handling.

That stiffer is better to me is a marketing thing, too stiff and the wheels wont take it and you lose power there.

THe other detail is that some frames likes you seated further back than other ones, and yes steel and carbon feel different but there is a detail tho...the problem you have IMO has nothing to do with the material used, there is a chance it is a thing of you being seated in the bike (fit), you are in the wrong spot because the bike wants you somewhere else, the other big detail IMO is that the tubes in that derosaish are so different to anything like regular SL/SLX/MAX/EL-OS/etc tubing columbus made before that the frame reacts in another way when seated in the wrong spot. Speculating here because I doubt i will have the frame you have ever you know.

There is an article of a guy that got a c40, felt dead... after a long time realized he got the wrong frame size (had to go smaller to have the bike to feel like everybody feels it)... wheelbase was tad too long apparently... colnago wheelbase is longer, you fit more over the wheels than over the frame.

Hope this helps, it sucks when you put your coins in something it should work and nothing happens, been there and since you race apparently you are just used to have bikes behave one way, a non racer 70 y/o wont care if the bike feels like an 18 wheeler... ex racer here so I know where are you comming from, because I had my share of top tier stuff that did not work for me either, but in general even getting the wrong size with regular steel tubing (classic stuff) never had the problem you are describing but maybe with 1 colnago master i got when i was 16... had to return it and went back to my custom SL frame. Had an EM aluminum frame, apparently was the right size... did not work, just the same than you... a pinarello prince aluminum... same, just dead... took me years to figure it out that probably got the wrong size... doubt will try them again anyways, so hard to tell if im right or wrong in my conclusions.

Move the seat like 5 mm back and see how it feels (my hunch).
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  #48  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:05 PM
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velofinds velofinds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l0n3rider View Post
btw.. i'm from malaysia (hopefully you guys know where it is ๐Ÿ˜Š)
In your photos, I see a lot of you guys wearing bib knickers, which I find rather curious
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  #49  
Old 12-07-2018, 02:14 PM
OtayBW OtayBW is offline
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Black frames are faster....
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  #50  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:20 PM
l0n3rider l0n3rider is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by velofinds View Post
In your photos, I see a lot of you guys wearing bib knickers, which I find rather curious
ohh ok.. i guess it's more of personal choice influenced by religion.. most of us are muslim.. i am not comfortable wearing shorts in public ๐Ÿ˜Š.. but some of my friends do wear bib shorts.. no problem.. personal choice ๐Ÿ˜Š
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  #51  
Old 12-07-2018, 11:58 PM
Clancy Clancy is offline
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Originally Posted by OtayBW View Post
Black frames are faster....
Word
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  #52  
Old 12-08-2018, 01:53 AM
Fivethumbs Fivethumbs is offline
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Boss of the Bosberg. Steel and knickers.
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  #53  
Old 12-08-2018, 06:11 AM
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velofinds velofinds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l0n3rider View Post
ohh ok.. i guess it's more of personal choice influenced by religion.. most of us are muslim.. i am not comfortable wearing shorts in public ๐Ÿ˜Š.. but some of my friends do wear bib shorts.. no problem.. personal choice ๐Ÿ˜Š
Interesting! I didn't know this.
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  #54  
Old 12-08-2018, 08:04 AM
jamesdak jamesdak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtbadge View Post
Saddle height, saddle setback behind BB, reach from saddle -> bars, saddle->bar drop, gotta check it all.
^This!

I no longer have any C.F. (except for a NOS 99 Y-Foil 77 frame) but used to have two of them as well as over 25 steel bikes. Frames sizes range from 53cm to 57cm. The first step with each bike is dialing in the same fit. The saddle height and setback in relation to the bb are done first. Then the reach of the handlebars from the center of the saddle taking into consideration the saddle to bar drop. I do set some up a bit more aggressively here for personal reasons. Despite the similar fit though different bikes have different characteristics and ride differently. This is attributed to same many things vs just being steel or carbon fiber. So for me the answer is no I don't ride them differently. They do ride differently though.
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  #55  
Old 12-08-2018, 09:58 AM
sillverchevy sillverchevy is offline
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Tuning in

Interesting thread. I currently ride Gaulzettis, and just sold my Cervelo S5....to purchase one of the Officina Battalglin frames. I spoke in depth with Battaglin...worried about frame stiffness, flex, etc (I'm 83kilo...). I'm curious to see the difference between the stiffer Aluminum Cross, the S5, and now this Tig welded steel. Like all my frames, I get the numbers as close to each other as possible, regardless of material, and it has almost always worked out (Guru photon was the only rig I ever pushed that felt slow...go figure).
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  #56  
Old 12-08-2018, 01:50 PM
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Joxster Joxster is offline
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Pedal faster with higher revs and just look Pro
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  #57  
Old 12-08-2018, 07:33 PM
ultraman6970 ultraman6970 is offline
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joxter, can you still do 40 km/h with 42/16 for an hour?
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