Need help with tubeless alu rim brake rim choice

[DavidMtl]

I'm on my way to have my two first hanbuilt wheelsets by a local wheelbuilder.

On my road bike (titanium with carbon stays) I've only had older clinchers (Ksyrium ES and Shamal c15) on 23mm and now 25mm road tires.

I also ride Shamal's c15 clichers on my steel cyclocross (that I use as a gravel bike) with Gravel King SK 35mm.

So I'm looking to get more modern (wider) wheels for these two bikes and try tubeless. I'm getting older so confort is getting more important than performance. I'm about 88 kg.

I'm pretty sure I will feel a difference in comfort going tubeless (less tire pressure) with wider rims, on both bikes.

I want to use tubeless tires 35mm on the cyclocross and 28 mm on the road bike (both the widest the frames can take).

For both bikes I was heading with Hed Belgium+ rims but I read it's hard to install tires on them. Since I'm new to tubeless I don't want to mess with tire mounting problems, especially if something goes wrong and I need to install a tube on the side of the road.

My other options are Velocity Quill, Kinlin XR31T, Easton R90 SL and Boyd Altamont.

MY MAIN QUESTION: is there a rim that is easier to mount tubeless tires on?

For the rest of the builds, I plan to go:

Cyclocross: Bitex RAR12 RAF12 hubs with Sapim Race spokes
Road: Aivee SR2 hubs with Sapim CX Rays/sprint spokes

Thanks

[.RJ]

I have Easton R90SL rims on my old cx bike that sees most of its use on gravel and crappy pavement and I've never needed a tire lever to mount tires (30-40mm), most tires inflate with a floor pump and they've been very durable.

[rowebr]

If I were you, I'd try the wide rim/wider tire setup with inner tubes first. Tubeless is finicky, there is definitely a learning curve with trial and error in the setup process: taping the rims, how many tape layers, soapy water on tire beads, inflate with inner tube first or compressor, etc.

Even using inner tubes, the modern tubeless rims will be harder to mount tires on. I recommend getting the Kool-Stop bead jack tool, $15 will save your thumbs!

I'm running two sets of Kinlin XR tubeless rim-brake wheels and I've set up various CX and gravel tires on them. Highly recommend, but there is variation in setup. Maxxis Ramblers went on easily but WTB Vulpine were more of a fight.

[Wunder]

Originally Posted by rowebr

If I were you, I'd try the wide rim/wider tire setup with inner tubes first. Tubeless is finicky, there is definitely a learning curve with trial and error in the setup process: taping the rims, how many tape layers, soapy water on tire beads, inflate with inner tube first or compressor, etc.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Even if going tubeless mounting first with a tube to set the tape and stretch the bead a bit before trying to set. You also may find even with a tube you can get pressure pretty low (say 60psi for a 28mm and 40psi for a 35mm).

The bead jack mentioned is a good idea, as is getting the tire beads fully into the center channel and finishing at the valve stem. I have found DT swiss rims like the R460 and R411 are easier to mount than some others (Pacenti, HED) but they run on the narrower side (18mm internal) and their tubeless retention isn't as good (I beleive they are a bit shorter, easier to mount, but harder to seat).

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by DavidMtl

For both bikes I was heading with Hed Belgium+ rims but I read it's hard to install tires on them.
Thanks

If you're going to struggle with HEDs, you're going to struggle with anything. There's a technique to it, once you get used to it there's nothing to it.

[saab2000]

I have had great success with my Boydhttps://boydcycling.com/collections/...ke-road-wheels Altamont Lite wheels. They have since evolved and look even nicer. I’d give these a close look.

They’re tubeless compatible though I just run mine with inner tubes and am happy.

[Cat3roadracer]

HED Belgium +

[one60]

If you aren't set on handbuilts I'd recommend the OXICs from DT Swiss. These are 18mm internal, so while not the widest, they will fit a lot of older rim brake bikes which a often less forgiving on overall tire width/size.

Two depths: 21mm or 32mm

With the included Swiss stop pads, the braking is nothing short of fantastic. I had Boyd's but bought two sets of OXICs.

[hokoman]

Originally Posted by November Dave

If you're going to struggle with HEDs, you're going to struggle with anything. There's a technique to it, once you get used to it there's nothing to it.

My experience with getting tires on tubeless compatible rims is that my HED + rims were the most difficult.. by far. Maybe I have too much tape on them - not sure since I didn't tape them.

[.RJ]

Originally Posted by rowebr

If I were you, I'd try the wide rim/wider tire setup with inner tubes first. Tubeless is finicky, there is definitely a learning curve with trial and error in the setup process: taping the rims, how many tape layers, soapy water on tire beads, inflate with inner tube first or compressor, etc.

Even using inner tubes, the modern tubeless rims will be harder to mount tires on. I recommend getting the Kool-Stop bead jack tool, $15 will save your thumbs!

Yes there's a bit of a learning curve but dont let that put you off of tubeless. Its not rocket science here. You may need to invest in some new tools (like a blast pump or compressor) and learn some new things (taping rims) but nothing that cant be learned in 10 minutes on youtube.

I have found that modern tubeless [I]rims[I] are far, far easier to mount tires to than the old non-tubeless stuff, especially older box section rims. The deeper center channel here is what makes the difference. I remember HED stuff being slightly fussy but nothing on the order of mounting a conti tubular.

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by hokoman

My experience with getting tires on tubeless compatible rims is that my HED + rims were the most difficult.. by far. Maybe I have too much tape on them - not sure since I didn't tape them.

These conversations are always a struggle since basically nothing is known - tape type, tire type, what "difficult" means, if good technique is used, etc. I've installed a few hundred tires on HED rims, but those tires have all been Conti 5Ks, Schwalbe Pro Ones, Vittoria Corsas, etc - many samples of a fairly broad representation of high performance tires, but nothing really other than very high spec tires. And my rim sample is huge but excludes almost all pre-built wheels and a wide variety of rims. Everything mentioned by OP are rims I've used.

I also use levers 100% of the time. I find nothing to be gained in not using them when using them is so easy. I always have one with me when I ride, and I keep them everywhere where I might work on a bike. People talk about not using levers in a way that I don't think about it. Not using a lever to put a tire on is, to me, a bit like not using a hammer to put a nail in.

I've not ever struggled with putting a tire on a HED rim. If you have the entire tire bead in the channel and finish at the valve stem, you shouldn't either. Another way of saying this is that circumstances that would cause people to struggle with installing a tire on a HED rim would, in my experience, cause struggles with other rims.

[truth]

Originally Posted by DavidMtl

I'm on my way to have my two first hanbuilt wheelsets by a local wheelbuilder.

On my road bike (titanium with carbon stays) I've only had older clinchers (Ksyrium ES and Shamal c15) on 23mm and now 25mm road tires.

I also ride Shamal's c15 clichers on my steel cyclocross (that I use as a gravel bike) with Gravel King SK 35mm.

So I'm looking to get more modern (wider) wheels for these two bikes and try tubeless. I'm getting older so confort is getting more important than performance. I'm about 88 kg.

I'm pretty sure I will feel a difference in comfort going tubeless (less tire pressure) with wider rims, on both bikes.

I want to use tubeless tires 35mm on the cyclocross and 28 mm on the road bike (both the widest the frames can take).

For both bikes I was heading with Hed Belgium+ rims but I read it's hard to install tires on them. Since I'm new to tubeless I don't want to mess with tire mounting problems, especially if something goes wrong and I need to install a tube on the side of the road.

My other options are Velocity Quill, Kinlin XR31T, Easton R90 SL and Boyd Altamont.

MY MAIN QUESTION: is there a rim that is easier to mount tubeless tires on?

For the rest of the builds, I plan to go:

Cyclocross: Bitex RAR12 RAF12 hubs with Sapim Race spokes
Road: Aivee SR2 hubs with Sapim CX Rays/sprint spokes

Thanks

I'm sorry that I can't speak to ease of mounting tires specifically on those rims, but that generally mounting tubeless tires seems easy if appropriate technique (having the bead sitting in the center rim) is used. So I don't think you should be scared about that.

You mentioned looking for greater comfort, so I'll make a plug that a Rene Herse Extralight or Standard casing tire will certainly feel more confortable than a gravelking at the same pressure. So consider tire choice too.

As to rims, I've been thinking a lot about tubeless rim brake aluminum rims recently and while HED the brand and the Belgium series of rims have always had quite a bit of cachet, there are a number of great rims that are significantly less expensive that may have some other good qualities.

The DT Swiss R460 is supposed to be great and can be had from a number of shops with free shipping for around $60 per rim.

The Velocity Quill is USA made and can be had from $90 per rim plus shipping and is highly regarded.

The Kinlin XR31T is affordable and the rear is offset, which is a big plus to me.

The Boyd Altamont is pricier than the 3 above but is USA made and has an offset rear rim.

There's also the very wide crust rims that have a more classic look or a Pacenti brevet if you want a classic look.

For my money, I simply can't justify the price of the HED rims. If I was prepared to spend those dollars on rims, I'd get the Boyds.

[tellyho]

Honestly, you don't want tubeless tires to be easy to mount because then they would be easy to dismount, accidentally. I would go with whatever rims you prefer; mounting, etc. will work out.

My $0.02: if you don't live in flat -prone areas, road tubeless is not worth the hassle.

[mass_biker]

I have found that just going to the new gen slightly-wider rims allows me to run even narrow tires by modern standards (23 or 25…depends on chainstay clearance etc.) at meaningfully lower PSI which allows for a much more comfortable ride. 26c tires on Stans Alphas (a little wider than the really old school Open Pro, but a lot narrower then HED+ etc.) is about as much as my 20 year old C50 can handle. But I run those at 75PSI max and they are plush as can be. Try the wider rims without tubeless first and see how it feels.

[November Dave]

Originally Posted by mass_biker

I have found that just going to the new gen slightly-wider rims allows me to run even narrow tires by modern standards (23 or 25…depends on chainstay clearance etc.) at meaningfully lower PSI which allows for a much more comfortable ride. 26c tires on Stans Alphas (a little wider than the really old school Open Pro, but a lot narrower then HED+ etc.) is about as much as my 20 year old C50 can handle. But I run those at 75PSI max and they are plush as can be. Try the wider rims without tubeless first and see how it feels.

This too. Each 2mm increment of increased rim inner width makes a given tire inflate about 1mm wider, and about .5mm taller. I've personally moved away from tubeless for road and have been using 32mm Conti 5ks with latex tubes on 21mm internal rims at high 50s psi (which I just checked against Silca pressure calculator and hooray for me I'm spot on). Just gave those wheels to the Mrs and will be going to 25mm internal wheels with the same tires/tubes.