Tour Divide

[R3awak3n]

I would not say I bikepack and definitey have not done any event. I would not even say I am a newb because I have never done anythinf even remotey close to this. I have known about the tour divide and a few other endurance bikepacking events but will admit TD trough the doc. So lets say the doc was not made, kept the race more under hush hush but then a lot of people would not know about it. Is that a good thing? Maybe some of the people there right now would have not done it, or some futurw great riders that heard of this theough some sort of media? I get it, people dont want to ruin a good thing and trust me I dont want it to turn into the world tour (which i barely watch and frankly dont really enjoy). And rules and spirit are great, rules make things fair but this sotuation seemed to get out of hand.

[unterhausen]

I see your point, but I found out about TD before the documentary. There are lots of races like this now, unsupported long distance rides of some kind or another. https://ridefar.info/races/list/ Bike nonstop is still going on, east west on many dirt roads. TransVirginia just had a grand depart last month, 550 miles, mostly on gravel. This kind of race is really taking off, which means there are as many as 2-3 people that start that have a chance to win. But the records are falling because better athletes are starting. I really don't think it's possible to ruin it. Pros really didn't ruin RAAM, which is more their style of race anyway.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I see your point, but I found out about TD before the documentary. There are lots of races like this now, unsupported long distance rides of some kind or another. https://ridefar.info/races/list/ Bike nonstop is still going on, east west on many dirt roads. TransVirginia just had a grand depart last month, 550 miles, mostly on gravel. This kind of race is really taking off, which means there are as many as 2-3 people that start that have a chance to win. But the records are falling because better athletes are starting. I really don't think it's possible to ruin it. Pros really didn't ruin RAAM, which is more their style of race anyway.

Also, we should note that many of the people in these races are in fact pros. A pro won DK. I dont think Lael is washing dishes between tours anymore either. It may be that people are more concerned about world tour pros ruining things? Or are just concerned about race caravans, support vehicles, etc? But the rules would exclude that.

I dont think its realistic in this day and age to expect that races like this not be publicized, documented, etc. And trying to exclude those not "in the know" is sort of counter to the vibe of these events. The film makers here say that in the film they plan to address the concerns of one prominent rider (forget who-I think not riding this year) and others who were concerned about the effect that meeting up with documentarians would have on the morale of riders, and that marquis riders would be unfairly advantaged; Lael in particular, whose partner is one of the documentarians. That is probably a valid concern. If I recall, one year the second place rider was forced to abandon, and shortly thereafter the leader quit citing the lack of motivation and encouragement from riding with and against the other rider.

[peanutgallery]

Too much hipster, PC pretzel drama. Oi!!!

I'd expect nothing less from Radavist

In other news...Alexandera is still kicking a$$ on her single speed and Redwing boots. That's what the event is all about

[AngryScientist]

as seen on Salsas social media today.

so what is this big rule debate all about?

salsacycles
Dear Adventure Community,
Some of you may be aware of the public debate of rules surrounding this year’s Tour Divide. While we appreciate a healthy discussion, we were disappointment by the behavior of Salsa Cycles sponsored athlete Jay Petervary. As a result, we have made the difficult decision to end our sponsorship agreement with Jay.
We would like to make clear that our decision was not based on the Tour Divide rules, nor the interpretation of those rules. During the conflict that surrounded this year’s Tour Divide, Jay’s conduct simply did not align with our brand values of empathy, community, and positivity.
Over the years, Jay has been an important partner for Salsa Cycles in supporting and growing Adventure By Bike. We wish him the best in his next adventure.
Sincerely,
Salsa Cycles

[KonaSS]

Surface of the issue is here. More in the comments. Lots more on discussion boards about Tour Divide

https://theradavist.com/2019/06/tour...e-race-part-4/

[weisan]

Very unfortunate.

Lost sight of the big picture.

Both sides.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by KonaSS

Surface of the issue is here. More in the comments. Lots more on discussion boards about Tour Divide

https://theradavist.com/2019/06/tour...e-race-part-4/

Interesting. Seems unfortunate that the rider's SO didn't just say, "ok, do the documentary without me." Seems that would have solved a lot of the problem.

[kevinvc]

Originally Posted by MattTuck

Interesting. Seems unfortunate that the rider's SO didn't just say, "ok, do the documentary without me." Seems that would have solved a lot of the problem.

Really? After months / years of planning this professional endeavor and going to extraordinary lengths to be transparent and abide by the rules of the event, she should have just said never mind because some facebook aholes had a tizzy.

That is a really poor take.

[gdw]

Originally Posted by kevinvc

Really? After months / years of planning this professional endeavor and going to extraordinary lengths to be transparent and abide by the rules of the event, she should have just said never mind because some facebook aholes had a tizzy.

That is a really poor take.

Easy guy. The Radavist is only covering one side of the story, there's a lot more to this than what she wrote.

[kevinvc]

Originally Posted by gdw

Easy guy. The Radavist is only covering one side of the story, there's a lot more to this than what she wrote.

Not sure what you mean, I don't see how I came across as being overly aggressive.

If there's a legitimate reason that the Ms. Kaladyte should have abandoned her project in order to appease others, I'd be interested in learning more. My point was that this seems to have been a well planned professional undertaking within her chosen career. To glibly suggest she should have just dropped it because some objected came across to me as a poor take.

[gdw]

A lot of the people objecting to the manner in which the documentary was to be made, ebikes on the course and her partner's presence during the event, are veterans of the race and their concerns are valid. They are not Facebook aholes. Please read the rules governing the event. The race is intended to be an individual time trial with very limited controlled interaction with the public, friends, or family. In other words, many members of the racing communityl feel that having an entourage traveling with a racer on the course violates the rules and spirit of the event.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by kevinvc

Really? After months / years of planning this professional endeavor and going to extraordinary lengths to be transparent and abide by the rules of the event, she should have just said never mind because some facebook aholes had a tizzy.

That is a really poor take.

Originally Posted by gdw

A lot of the people objecting to the manner in which the documentary was to be made, ebikes on the course and her partner's presence during the event, are veterans of the race and their concerns are valid. They are not Facebook aholes. Please read the rules governing the event. The race is intended to be an individual time trial with very limited controlled interaction with the public, friends, or family. In other words, many members of the racing communityl feel that having an entourage traveling with a racer on the course violates the rules and spirit of the event.

yeah, pretty much this. If there is a rule that says family/friends are prohibited from interacting with the racers, I think you're already pushing the boundaries by even considering (as the significant other of a racer) a project of this type.

There are plenty of other races and racers that could be the focus of such a documentary that would be equally compelling. As an outsider, it looks an awful lot like a professional content producer trying to use their personal connections to an athlete to create content in a setting that strongly discourages that type of thing.

At the same time, the event organizers could have partnered with her and created an independent and neutral film crew to document the race, and you'd still have footage available to ANYONE that wanted to use it. Not knowing the details of the production, one wonders whether they had sponsors and whether those sponsorships might create the perception of conflicts of interest with the race.

Still, if she was so passionate about making this project a success, it seems she could have removed herself from the production and avoided most of the opposition. It strikes me as actually selfish that she inserted herself into this situation, and put her girlfriend in a compromised mental position for the race.

[peanutgallery]

Bingo

The rider in question quit, then hung around and rode, then pretended they finished. Kinda attempted to detract attention from the actual women's winner...with a smile. Pictures, waves of social campaign stuff. Kinda odd, check out the IG feed. Written in the first person by a 3rd person....it's out there

Salsa (AKA: Quality Bicycle Products), ethics? excuse me while I choke out...laughing

It wasn't Jay P's best moment, but the other side got a little wacky and certainly pushed the envelope on what used to be considered the "rules" for the event, too. But I guess that's what happens when someone attempts to basically monetize an unsanctioned, impromptu event and strong personalities collide. In the meantime, Alexandera Houchin wins again...on a single speed...wearing Redwing boots.

Alexandera's blog - it's a great read, gifted writer (reminded me of The Nick Adams Stories)
https://alexandherrastro.wordpress.com/

Originally Posted by MattTuck

yeah, pretty much this. If there is a rule that says family/friends are prohibited from interacting with the racers, I think you're already pushing the boundaries by even considering (as the significant other of a racer) a project of this type.

There are plenty of other races and racers that could be the focus of such a documentary that would be equally compelling. As an outsider, it looks an awful lot like a professional content producer trying to use their personal connections to an athlete to create content in a setting that strongly discourages that type of thing.

At the same time, the event organizers could have partnered with her and created an independent and neutral film crew to document the race, and you'd still have footage available to ANYONE that wanted to use it. Not knowing the details of the production, one wonders whether they had sponsors and whether those sponsorships might create the perception of conflicts of interest with the race.

Still, if she was so passionate about making this project a success, it seems she could have removed herself from the production and avoided most of the opposition. It strikes me as actually selfish that she inserted herself into this situation, and put her girlfriend in a compromised mental position for the race.

[spoonrobot]

Originally Posted by gdw

Easy guy. The Radavist is only covering one side of the story, there's a lot more to this than what she wrote.

About half of the facebook threads were deleted so the full story was buried anyway.

Basically it went like this:

Third party former racer starts a snarky comment thread about Lael's girlfriend, Rue, following her Tour Divide record attempt with a film crew

Lots of debate, most fairly reasoned - rules are rules for a reason

Rue posts a long justification about how it's fine and within the spirit of the rules, mostly rhetoric and dissembling

Thread gets deleted

There's another thread started here that was deleted as well but a poster makes a glib comment about screenshotting sponsored rider's response -> I thought this was actually aimed at another rider not Jay P.

Rue makes a new thread with further explanation, more debate, made up rules for Lael to follow

Rue makes a third thread where it is finally revealed that Matthew Lee gave permission for the film crew and her to follow and document her girlfriend's record attempt, the timing makes it seems like a lie but who knows

The whole thing was a poor reflection on both Rue, Lael and Specialized. Is it possible for Lael to complete a race without her girlfriend following along and taking 10,000 pictures? Can women racers abide by both the rules and spirit of endurance events? I guess we should be thankful Rue didn't just ride along like a pacer the women's DK200 winner had one year.

It's a shame 2019 has this as the main narrative now. 2019 was a great year for TD racing, Alexandera's accomplishment should be a lot more celebrated.