Randonneur

[djm]

Not really sure what I am looking for in the new ride. I just know now that I want comfort on long days,a bit more upright so my neck in now aching after long hours, low trail and front load.

If you are experimenting with a traditional rando-style bike, you might want to consider the new Crust Canti Lightning Bolt as an entry point. You could then go custom later. I recommend wide 650B tires a la Rene Herse for long distance comfort if your roads are like ours in the Midwest.

[palincss]

Originally Posted by skiezo

As time goes on and my body is changing so is what I am looking for in a bike and what I want out of the said bike. So in my mid 50's now and after 30+ years of riding from crits in the 80's to fast groups in the 90's and into the early 2000's to just enjoying long solo rides now.
I am getting a professional fit within the next 4 to 6 weeks and I am getting the geo for a Randonneur type bike for a new bike. Not really sure what I am looking for in the new ride. I just know now that I want comfort on long days,a bit more upright so my neck in now aching after long hours, low trail and front load. As far as stopping it I am also at a loss, long reach,center pulls or discs.
Been a campy guy all my life but I am also up in the air on this as well.
This bike will be for CC touring and longer days in the saddle. Definitely will be a lugged bike in steel.
Let me know what you think and throw out some ideas my way.
I will keep my Ti DeSalvo for my everyday ride and the Sarto Classica for my faster training ride as of now.

The Randonneur mission profile involves long -- sometimes very, very long -- rides that can include riding in inclement weather (one or two PBPs ago the entire 1200 km was in pouring down rain) and riding in the dark. You may not even set out with the intention of riding in the dark or in the rain, but in some seasons it's hard to do a long ride without running the risk of one or both.

Riding in the dark requires lights. Taking the chance of being out there after sundown if you run into problems that will delay you a bit on a long ride requires lights. If you intend to do brevets that will require you to ride all night long, you need to think about run-time: generator-powered lighting has an infinite burn time while equally powerful battery lights may only run two or three hours before needing recharging.

Riding in the rain is much more pleasant and comfortable if you have fenders to block the spray from the road from splashing all over you. If you really want persuading of the value of fenders, come to Lancaster County and ride the roads the Amish use when they're wet. Imagine being hosed in the face and on your feet for hours with a mixture of horse dung and road oil. (I've ridden the Covered Bridge ride over a dozen times, and I've seen this scenario play out several times.)

The mission profile also includes self support. Where you live, doing long rides in autumn, winter and early spring means you'll encounter a wide range of temperatures - sometimes as much as 20-30 degrees or more during the course of the ride. You're not going to cover that range with arm warmers and leg warmers that you can remove and stuff into your jersey pockets and you won't have a support vehicle to carry your cast-offs so you're going to need some baggage to carry clothing. You're also going to have to carry whatever you need in the way of tools, tubes, sealant, a means to inflate a repaired flat tire, and so on, because self-support.

Bags really do much better (as in, not adversely affecting the handling of the bike) when supported by racks. Racks in turn need mounts. You can have a light high performance frame that can carry enough luggage to get you through an overnight ride that you can even add a lowrider rack to to carry panniers making the bike suitable for the sort of touring you want to do. Jan Heine has been writing about bikes like that for years in Bicycle Quarterly.

Those long rides -- especially brevets -- often involve riding over roads with less than perfectly smooth pavement. Sometimes they even intentionally throw in unpaved sections. On anything but the smoothest pavement, you're going to be much more comfortable with a wider tire that you can run at a lower pressure. Those wider tires have much better grip in the wet, all else being equal, and also tend to flat less.

But fenders and wider tires have implications for design. You need clearance for those things to fit, and you'd do well to make sure they'll fit without casing toe overlap. Fenders and wide tires also have implications for rim brakes: no matter how much you might like sidepulls, they don't leave as much room for fenders and tires as centerpulls and cantilevers. That's not an issue for disc brakes, but disc brakes can cause issues for mounting racks and fenders that need to be worked around and taken into consideration.

Gearing needs to take into account the terrain, the load and your ability. There are many ways to skin that particular cat, with solutions from all makers. You just need to find something that you like and that works for you, and of all the design considerations I've mentioned gearing is the least of them because there are so many workable ways to solve the problem.

So what does something optimized for this mission look like? While there are many ways to do the job, here's what such a bike might look like:



You can read more about this particular bike here and here.

Yes this is an extreme example, a masterwork from a master at the top of his game featuring some amazing weight-savings tricks that one could easily live without and yes indeed you certainly don't need a purpose-built randonneur to ride brevets, even to ride PBP. But it sure doesn't hurt.

This one has 650Bx38, partly for the slight weight savings over 650Bx42 but also for the slightly more nimble feeling, basically approximating the feel of an all-out racing bike without any of the harshness and "road buzz." The great thing about 650B is you can get the added tire width while still having the slightly smaller overall wheel size, making it easier to fit that big tire into a smaller frame without having to compromise handling.

This bike is a close relative of the CdM bike pictured above, equipped with a removable low rider rack that even comes apart for easy packing



transforming this light randonneur into a light touring bike.

[skiezo]

Thanks palincss for that writeup. I will not be doing any type of competitions so that is a non issue. Fenders will be in the equation. Tire size will be determined. If 700c 32 will be as large as I go and 650b would be a 38. Evening/nights will come into play I am sure so gen. lights are a must. I do ride in lancaster quite a bit so I am fully aware of the issues in the heart of that county and I have been sprayed with what the amish leave behind.
I do have a low trail 650b that I ride on my fire roads that has discs and a front rack/bag so I am familiar with this style of bike. It is a 333fad ALS. I like riding it but the fit is not quite there.
I want lugs so a Ti bike is out, but with all the tubing options out there. I am in contact with a few midwest guys that are doing lugged SS. I will probably opt for SS rear with a steel front triangle.
The guy doing my fit is a rando/tourer so he know what he is doing Im told.
I did not see the Winters was in the process of moving, so the explains that.

[Smitty2k1]

Go hang out and read Jan's blog: https://www.renehersecycles.com/blog/

Maybe pick up some back issues of BQ too, this is definitely his style of riding.

[tv_vt]

May not be a pure 'rando' bike, but I'll put in a plug for a nice steel Hampsten Strada Bianca. I love mine (though it's titanium, not steel). Long reach brakes work great, too.

[rccardr]

Weigle (Connecticut)
Davidson (Washington state)
Franklin Frames (Ohio)

That's where I'd start. Weigle is legendary but given his age, if you want to go built-for-you, don't delay. Davidson is at the top of his game, a custom Discovery would be super. I love mine, which is an 83 but takes 35's. Jack Trumbull at Franklin is simply amazing. An unsung builder and superb painter.

Agree that 650B is worth a look; I have two bikes (the Davidson and the Pelizzoli) that accept either 700 or 650B wheelsets, so there's that to consider as well.

[sparky33]

If you want a Weigle go back in time 5 or 6 years and put in the order.

All that said, if you are looking for a rando bike for 700x32 or 650x38, this could be a lot of widely available endurance/gravel/lighttouring bikes. Start there.

Originally Posted by rccardr

Weigle (Connecticut)
Davidson (Washington state)
Franklin Frames (Ohio)

That's where I'd start. Weigle is legendary but given his age, if you want to go built-for-you, don't delay. Davidson is at the top of his game, a custom Discovery would be super. I love mine, which is an 83 but takes 35's. Jack Trumbull at Franklin is simply amazing. An unsung builder and superb painter.

Agree that 650B is worth a look; I have two bikes (the Davidson and the Pelizzoli) that accept either 700 or 650B wheelsets, so there's that to consider as well.

[CNY rider]

Originally Posted by skiezo

I would like to find a builder within a 6 to 8 hour drive from me. That way me and wifey could do a long weekend trip. Chapman is in that time frame and I love RI. Winters is close but no response from him in 3 weeks after a few emails. Same with a few from eastern NY. Quite a few on the list from the midwest and I always wanted to visit the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. So many options.

You can probably make it to Toronto with an 8 hour drive.
Get in touch with Mariposa.
I have enjoyed working with them on multiple projects and they have the deep bench of knowledge to help you end up with the right bicycle.

[sparky33]

Chris Bishop (in Baltimore, MD) is who I would choose to build a lugged steel bike, particularly one that might have rando complexities and a tasteful mix of classic and modern features. I don't know why it took me so long to think of this one.

Originally Posted by skiezo

I would like to find a builder within a 6 to 8 hour drive from me. That way me and wifey could do a long weekend trip. Chapman is in that time frame and I love RI. Winters is close but no response from him in 3 weeks after a few emails. Same with a few from eastern NY. Quite a few on the list from the midwest and I always wanted to visit the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. So many options.

[unterhausen]

Eric Estlund definitely moved away, he has posted pictures of the container being loaded on a truck.

I like the Bishops I have seen. If I was going to have a bike built, I would get Corey Thompson to build it for me. One of the Eastern PA randonneurs has one, and it's immaculate. That was one of the frames that I have seen that convinced me that I needed to up my game a little.

[adampaiva]

If you like the traditional randonneur aesthetic and want to include all of the features like dynamo wire routing, rack mounts, perfect fender fitment...then I think there is a real value in picking a builder that has plenty of experience with that kind of bike. I think an all day road bike geometry is a different request.

Also as already stated here, if you've not tried low trail before it is worth finding a way to give it a go before committing to a $4k frame. I like it, but some people don't.

[skiezo]

I do have a price that I am trying to stay is so that does dictate the builder somewhat. Around 4K for a F/F/rack and such.
Franklin is on my short list to contact.
Wyganoswki Frames
Champman
Alex Meade
Coast- Either semi custom or full out.
And a few others that I have not contacted yet.
This full build from Coast looks interesting.
http://coastcycles.nyc/sale

[palincss]

Originally Posted by skiezo

Thanks palincss for that writeup. I will not be doing any type of competitions so that is a non issue. Fenders will be in the equation. Tire size will be determined. If 700c 32 will be as large as I go and 650b would be a 38.

650Bx38 is definitely more comfortable than 700Cx32, all else except pressure being equal and pressure being appropriate (i.e., for me, 60 psi for 650Bx38 vs 75-80 psi for 700x32). Officially randonneuring is non-competitive, the only competition being against the clock and against yourself, but basically any long self-supported ride (where "long" is 200k and above) will present the same issues of darkness, self-sufficiency and the need to carry and remove clothing and possibly food and water and of course tools. This is one reason why I believe the randonneur bicycle is all-around the best tool for most recreational riders who have interest in longer rides. Unlike racing bikes, which really are special-purpose tools, randonneur bikes do all the things "regular people" need to do very well and more.

If you do decide to go the generator lighting route (and it's probably obvious that I think you should) the Schmidt SL system is very well worth the extra money involved in setting up the fork. Wire connections regardless of the connector style become a pain in the a$$ when you forget they're there and then have to remove a front wheel either to transport the bike or to fix a flat. Even if you don't totally forget and rip out the wires (which I've done) you still have that extra bit of annoyance (a huge whole bit of extra if it's dark) reconnecting the wires. With the SL system it's no different from removing an ordinary wheel: just open the QR and out she comes. More work for the builder to build the fork, but a lot less work for you to use ait.

[NHAero]

As you mentioned the Twin Cities, and stainless steel, and lugs, I will pit in a plug for the builder of my frame/fork, Dave Anderson.

[m_sasso]

Just put my 83 Koga-Miyata Super Winner back together after a re-painted, I wouldn't overlook the current used market. There are stacks of great rim brake, level top, 1" head tube bikes currently being given away for pennies.