ENVE advising LBSs to not support open tubular tires

[ScottW]

Here are some specific brand/tire models that we DO NOT recommend:
Vittoria Corsa Non-Tubeless (Not ALL Vittoria Tires) – This tire features cotton sidewalls in black, para (tan), and anthracite (gray). This tire has been described to us by Vittoria as a race day only type of tire and that it is not recommended for training or prolonged use. This tire has been the main offender for cut sidewalls. While this one tire is not recommended for use with ENVE wheels, Vittoria’s Rubino model tires and the tubeless ready Corsa Speed have proven safe and reliable in our testing.

Would this include the popular Corsa G+ clinchers (not "speed" or "control") or is this only referring to older pre-G+ versions of Corsas? Because the typical marketing blurb for the Corsa G+ doesn't seem to suggest it's a "race day only" tire or "not recommended for prolonged use."
I was considering Corsa G+ for my next set to replace GP4KsII. Hadn't really given any second thought to it before reading this, but I'll be on alloys (HED Ardennes+ SL), not fancy carbon hoops.

[Lionel]

tubulars should be closed not open

[Mark McM]

The name "Open Tubular" is a rather nebulus description, as they are clearly clincher tires, and there are no common manufacturing methods used on "Open Tubulars" that are also used on all true tubulars. Enve specifies that the tires it is referring to are made with natural fiber casings (cotton or silk). Therefore, that includes other clincher tires such as Specialize Turbo Cotton, which are not called "Open Tubulars".

This part of the statement from Enve's announcement might be misworded:

As a result of this investigation, we confirmed that tires using natural sidewall materials with an open tubular type construction, are not fit for use with ENVE carbon rims.

Given that natural fiber casing tires appear to be safe to use on other wheels (including those with carbon rims), maybe it should instead say, "we confirmed that ENVE carbon rims are not fit for use with tires using natural sidewall materials with an open tubular type construction."

If Enve rims are dangerous to use with some tires that otherwise meet international safety standards, perhaps a recall of Enve rims should be considered.

[Tickdoc]

Am fine with vittoria corsa g’s on my enve’s, but no to veloflex on them. The veloflex bead does not seat well on my enve’s and I have had one ssplode on me in the middle of the night before. I thought a gun went off at 3 in the morning and was on high alert.

That being said, I still struggle with bead placement on any clincher on my enve rear wheel.

Still not sure what an open tubular is, though

[Nooch]

i feel like this is enve saying "oh hey, we may not catch every burr on our rims so be safe and don't use something that's somewhat more delicate -- let's blame the tires, not the rims..."

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

The name "Open Tubular" is a rather nebulus description, as they are clearly clincher tires, and there are no common manufacturing methods used on "Open Tubulars" that are also used on all true tubulars. Enve specifies that the tires it is referring to are made with natural fiber casings (cotton or silk). Therefore, that includes other clincher tires such as Specialize Turbo Cotton, which are not called "Open Tubulars".

This part of the statement from Enve's announcement might be misworded:



Given that natural fiber casing tires appear to be safe to use on other wheels (including those with carbon rims), maybe it should instead say, "we confirmed that ENVE carbon rims are not fit for use with tires using natural sidewall materials with an open tubular type construction."

If Enve rims are dangerous to use with some tires that otherwise meet international safety standards, perhaps a recall of Enve rims should be considered.

Unless I'm misreading the press release, they observed similar failures with other manufacturer's rims and the same "open tubular" tires?

[jtbadge]

Vittoria Corsa Non-Tubeless (Not ALL Vittoria Tires) – This tire features cotton sidewalls in black, para (tan), and anthracite (gray). This tire has been described to us by Vittoria as a race day only type of tire and that it is not recommended for training or prolonged use. This tire has been the main offender for cut sidewalls.

Has anyone on Paceline suffered this issue? Seems like the Corsa G+ is one of the most popular tires these days, I've definitely seen them paired with ENVE and other carbon clincher rims all over SoCal and the Internet.

Originally Posted by ScottW

Would this include the popular Corsa G+ clinchers (not "speed" or "control") or is this only referring to older pre-G+ versions of Corsas? Because the typical marketing blurb for the Corsa G+ doesn't seem to suggest it's a "race day only" tire or "not recommended for prolonged use."

The mention of the Anthracite sidewall would indicate that they are referring to the G+ models. The previous iteration was only available in tan or black sidewalls, AFAIK.

[MattTuck]

This is why its best to be a retro-grouch

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by Lionel

tubulars should be closed not open

Post of the day

[benb]

The Turbo Cotton tires from Specialized are definitely not "open tubulars", you have to use a separate tube just like any other clincher.

It wouldn't surprise me if they have a weaker sidewall due to the use of the cotton as they're marketed as fragile race tires I guess but I'm not sure they would automatically have the same issues on the ENVE rims.

The whole Open Tubular thing is basically a tubular with the internal tube but with flaps sewn on so you can mount it on a clincher rim AFAICT, no need to glue. Not really a tubular, not really a clincher.

That's why they always seemed so weird to me. You can't ride them flat like a tubular, you don't get to use the lighter tubular wheel, you don't get lower pressure benefits a tubular's glue might provide, you probably get the higher tubular rolling resistance vs a high end modern clincher, you lose easy repairability with just carrying tube(s).

[El Chaba]

I thought disc brakes were supposed to solve all of the problems with carbon clinchers....

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I thought disc brakes were supposed to solve all of the problems with carbon clinchers....

The next generation of carbon clinchers will have it all sorted out, trust me.

[jtbadge]

Originally Posted by benb

The Turbo Cotton tires from Specialized are definitely not "open tubulars", you have to use a separate tube just like any other clincher.

That's what all "open tubulars" are. Vittoria, Challenge, Veloflex. Supple clinchers, usually with cotton sidewalls instead of vulcanized rubber.

[ergott]

It would be nice if they would simply finish the edges of their rims off. They are the only rim I've recently seen with sharp edges. Rims like Boyd, Nox, and FSE are all finished of with much higher quality.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I thought disc brakes were supposed to solve all of the problems with carbon clinchers....

This issue isn't across the board with other CC rims.