Cat IVs with coaches

[cash05458]

"Most of these coaches are nothing more than motivators."

Bingo! like life coaches or any other of this ilk...you can hire an internet coach to help you network on the internet...same crap...just because it gets folks doing a bit more doesn't mean its ethical and ok...

[AngryScientist]

i would opine that the increase in availability of web based, integrated smart trianers and power meters that upload directly to training platforms lend themselves easily to online coaching.

a coach now has access to more data than every to help an athlete improve and all web based and accessed anywhere immediately.

short of an actual coach, individualized training plans based on actual user measured data are widely available now, and they really work!

if you are serious about performance gains, and looking to make the most of the training time you have available, this kind of stuff is the way to go for sure.

if you're like me, and the idea of structured anything ruins the "fun" aspect of cycling, than probably not for you!

[makoti]

Originally Posted by cash05458

"Most of these coaches are nothing more than motivators."

Bingo! like life coaches or any other of this ilk...you can hire an internet coach to help you network on the internet...same crap...just because it gets folks doing a bit more doesn't mean its ethical and ok...

Are you saying that coaches for cycling at the cat 4 level are unethical? I hope not.

I don't understand why it bothers people what other people do with their money. If we're going down that rabbit hole, I'm going to suggest that 95% of us should sell off anything above Tiagra level parts, stop buying custom frames, and ride in nothing better than Pearl Izumi.

[cash05458]

I don't understand why it bothers people what other people do with their money. If we're going down that rabbit hole, I'm going to suggest that 95% of us should sell off anything above Tiagra level parts, stop buying custom frames, and ride in nothing better than Pearl Izumi.

It is simply a comment on doing it on your own at a cat 4 level ok...that's all...you want to get your panties all twisted up about that, then do so...tiagra? lol...

[makoti]

Originally Posted by cash05458

It is simply a comment on doing it on your own at a cat 4 level ok...that's all...you want to get your panties all twisted up about that, then do so...tiagra? lol...

If you can afford the help, why not? Is there some level that being willing to seek out help to improve or simply because you enjoy the structure is against the rules? You're clearly the one who has a problem with it. Unethical? Seriously?

[cash05458]

Originally Posted by makoti

If you can afford the help, why not? Is there some level that being willing to seek out help to improve or simply because you enjoy the structure is against the rules? You're clearly the one who has a problem with it. Unethical? Seriously?

whatever...I give up...sorry for offering a different point of view...have at it cat 4 guys...go get them and do well...

[Mark McM]

Coaches are used for just about every other sport, and at all levels. This is considered the norm; what should be different about cycling?

A 16 on the high school basketball has a coach.

A 12 year old on the local little league team has a coach.

Heck, even the 5 year old on the T-ball team has a coach.

You might claim that these sports have coaches because they are team sports. But individual sports like swimming, tennis, skiing, golf, etc. also normally have coaches (at all levels).

It seems a little elitist to think that lower level competitors don't deserve to have coaches. If anything, they need them more.

[Spoker]

IMO we need clubs-teams-group rides more than distant coaches. In a way that is coaching of course.
A lot of professionals ride without coach telling them what to do.
The current World champ for example.

[steelbikerider]

I'm one of those cat3/4/5 coaches.

Lots of new riders are clueless when it comes to proper training. Despite having all the gadgets and gear, they don't take/have the the time to study Friel or Allen and Coggan so they pay me to do it. It can take 2-3 years to truly understand how to train and how your body reacts to training. Most new guys just go out and ride as hard as they can for 1-3 hours and there aren't many people around here who can tell them otherwise. They also don't know how to ride easy or take recovery and rest weeks.

Since I have been racing and riding for over 40 years, I can look at their work schedules, training schedules, family obligations and race priorities and work out a schedule to optimize their training to match their priorities. I don't cost much more than an "A" race weekend.

[ultraman6970]

Have a question for you, just curious.... some of those cats 5 sure arent young, some of them came to you with the dream of make it in the sport? And what did you tell to him about that dream before the whole training thing started?

[Alaska Mike]

I had one when I was a Cat 4 equivalent (no USAC up here).

I can say this- with her setting the training plan (and me following it), I made steady, predictable gains working towards my goals. Looking on WKO (and later Training Peaks), the patterns of ATL and TSB were tight and I rarely flamed out.

Working alone, my gains are far more sporadic and I burn out more often. She was far more attuned than I in recognizing patterns and making adjustments.

Could I learn this skill? Yep, but I don't want to. Getting too far into the weeds just makes it less fun for me. Lot's of people feel that way. I have read all of the training books and got something out of them, but taking it to that next level just doesn't interest me. Know what does interest me? Being fit enough to mix it up in a crit or road race.

If I had a regular, mentoring group ride back then, I wouldn't have gotten a coach. If the tools that are available today were available then (Zwift, smart trainers...), I probably wouldn't have had a coach. She was the best route from point A to point B for me, and I don't regret it.

[old fat man]

Originally Posted by steelbikerider

I'm one of those cat3/4/5 coaches.

Lots of new riders are clueless when it comes to proper training. Despite having all the gadgets and gear, they don't take/have the the time to study Friel or Allen and Coggan so they pay me to do it. It can take 2-3 years to truly understand how to train and how your body reacts to training. Most new guys just go out and ride as hard as they can for 1-3 hours and there aren't many people around here who can tell them otherwise. They also don't know how to ride easy or take recovery and rest weeks.

Since I have been racing and riding for over 40 years, I can look at their work schedules, training schedules, family obligations and race priorities and work out a schedule to optimize their training to match their priorities. I don't cost much more than an "A" race weekend.

I have no problem with amateurs signing up for coaching and if it gets more people out riding and racing, that's great. However I am concerned with how many "strong" amateurs have developed zero pack riding skills. Hitting the coaches targets on the trainer or while riding solo doesn't build pack skills.
Plenty of power, but not safe on the group ride or inside the pack in a crit. Wish the online coaching came with pack riding education too.

[earlfoss]

I'm a good coach and my athletes are engaged in their own improvement. They've gotten better, they've learned things about themselves, and I'd wager that if you asked them they'd all say that coaching has added to their fun in the sport. So go ahead and rip on coaching for amateur cyclists!

[.RJ]

The problem is not that cat 4's have coaches, its that so many ****ty coaches exist.

[fignon's barber]

Originally Posted by earlfoss

I'm a good coach and my athletes are engaged in their own improvement. They've gotten better, they've learned things about themselves, and I'd wager that if you asked them they'd all say that coaching has added to their fun in the sport. So go ahead and rip on coaching for amateur cyclists!

Exactly. I'm not a cycling coach, but a hockey skills coach (our group trains NHL and European pros as well as elite kids under 18). We recently added an adult mini camp, for "beerleaguers" (hockey equivalent of Cat iv). Basicly, the adults just want to improve so they can get more enjoyment out of the game. It's very satisfying as a coach to see these players improving, gaining more confidence in themselves, and enjoying it more.
Those using terms like "just motivators" and "unethical" probably have never been exposed to a real coach.