Tire review or maybe a warning?

[El Chaba]

Challenge...The struggle is real....

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by David Kirk

About two years ago I wanted to stuff as big a tire as I could in my everyday road bike with normal short reach brakes and I bought a set of Challenge Strada Bianca 30 mm tires.
In the end I mounted a set of used Compass 32mm tires from my dedicated gravel bike and had to do a bit of grinding on the underside of the brake to get the taller Compass 32 mm tire to just barely squeeze in there. It was too tight and when I hit just a bit of mud the bike nearly ground to a halt with build up under the caliper but I made it through both days with an occasional scraping noise and all was fine. The 30 mm Challenge would have been just right....if they stayed on.

Some years ago, a Challenge Grifo XS blew off (bang!) twice, thankfully not riding. Supple but scary. The second time happened in a hotel room, and I think the staff suspected a murder - funny looks all weekend.

The Schwalbe S-One Speed 30 is a plump short reach brake tire, it plumps to 31 or so with use. Rolls well. For a road bike, it's just the right amount smaller than a Compass 32 (which is a wonderful tire).

[R3awak3n]

I had a vittoria tire come off one time, I am not sure what I did but the tube came out from under the tire. Tube was still inflated and out of the rim. It was very strange. I was lucky this happened when I was climbing and not going down on the other side of the hill.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

Vittoria does a 30mm tire fwiw.

Do they measure close to 30?
I also see a 30mm tubular which sounds kind of fun.

[NHAero]

So should I be worried about the Vittoria Corsa G+ 28s that came on my used Firefly? Mounted on HED Belgiums. Awfully nice riding tire. I didn't have any difficulty mounting them.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by NHAero

So should I be worried about the Vittoria Corsa G+ 28s that came on my used Firefly? Mounted on HED Belgiums. Awfully nice riding tire. I didn't have any difficulty mounting them.

Challenge tires are in a league of their own when it comes to blow-off and mounting difficulty. I've not had this same kind of trouble with Vittoria, Compass, etc.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by sparky33

Do they measure close to 30?
I also see a 30mm tubular which sounds kind of fun.

Yup. I've got the tubular and it's bang on 30. Great tire.

[slambers3]

Ok just to play the devil's advocate;
It is entirely possible when the OP installed the tire, there may have been an issue with the installation, not necessarily the tire. I've seen this happen with experienced hands, not just the novice changing an occasional flat by the side of the road. A pinched tube or bad fit of the tire to rim simply could result in a blowout, especially with a loose fitting tire/rim combination. Additionally, anyone who has spent any time working in a shop changing tires/tubes knows that if a tire blows off a rim for whatever reason, there's a good chance it won't say on the rim again. Whether that's from a stretched bead, damaged sidewall/bead, or initial manufacturing defect, it becomes hard to say.
Cotton casing "open tubular" tires are simply not as user friendly as conventional molded rubber tires. They have substantial performance benefits (lower rolling resistance, good cornering traction etc) but that comes at the cost of ease of use and long term durability. These tires aren't for everyone-Some folks just can't help but ride in the gutter and attract all of the broken glass in the road, and in that case your paper thin "ultra supple" casing can only protect your tube so much.

[fa63]

Originally Posted by slambers3

Ok just to play the devil's advocate;

It is entirely possible when the OP installed the tire, there may have been an issue with the installation, not necessarily the tire. I've seen this happen with experienced hands, not just the novice changing an occasional flat by the side of the road. A pinched tube or bad fit of the tire to rim simply could result in a blowout, especially with a loose fitting tire/rim combination. Additionally, anyone who has spent any time working in a shop changing tires/tubes knows that if a tire blows off a rim for whatever reason, there's a good chance it won't say on the rim again. Whether that's from a stretched bead, damaged sidewall/bead, or initial manufacturing defect, it becomes hard to say.

Cotton casing "open tubular" tires are simply not as user friendly as conventional molded rubber tires. They have substantial performance benefits (lower rolling resistance, good cornering traction etc) but that comes at the cost of ease of use and long term durability. These tires aren't for everyone-Some folks just can't help but ride in the gutter and attract all of the broken glass in the road, and in that case your paper thin "ultra supple" casing can only protect your tube so much.

I would suggest looking up the OP (David Kirk) and see if it changes any of your opinions.

[slambers3]

Originally Posted by fa63

I would suggest looking up the OP (David Kirk) and see if it changes any of your opinions.

I'm well aware of who he is. It's possible for experienced people to make a mistake. Have you ever overlooked an error you made and blamed some other factor? We all have blind spots.
I'm not saying necessarily that's what happened because it's impossible from behind my desk, but as I said, just playing devils advocate and trying to advance the discussion.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by slambers3

I'm well aware of who he is. It's possible for experienced people to make a mistake. Have you ever overlooked an error you made and blamed some other factor? We all have blind spots.
I'm not saying necessarily that's what happened because it's impossible from behind my desk, but as I said, just playing devils advocate and trying to advance the discussion.

It is possible, though unlikely, that Mr. Kirk made a mistake installing the tire. Expertise and experience doesn't immunize you against error. Devil's advocacy is important to test our assumptions.

Can you square your installation error hypothesis with the many many other reports, in this thread and elsewhere, of Challenge tire failure- most of which have nothing to do with Dave Kirk? I wouldn't expect that there would be meaningfully different rates of installation error across tire models/brands*, but it seems that Challenge is always correlated with blowouts, tread delamination, etc. Admittedly we are working with anecdata here.

There are too many other good tires out there to gamble on these, IMO.


*and if there is a model of tire that has a higher rate of installation error, that seems like a design flaw of the tire

[jtbadge]

No need to advocate for the devil here, the history of Challenge tires threads on this and other forums speak for themselves. The tires repeatedly fail catastrophically after difficulty mounting, frequent flats, and tread delamination.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

No need to advocate for the devil here, the history of Challenge tires threads on this and other forums speak for themselves. The tires repeatedly fail catastrophically after difficulty mounting, frequent flats, and tread delamination.

YUP...

It is possible, though unlikely, that Mr. Kirk made a mistake installing the tire.

More than once..he had the thing blow off.

but it seems that Challenge is always correlated with blowouts, tread delamination, etc.

Yup, called 'devil's' advocate for a reason...the tires are junque..no operator error...

[kingpin75s]

Yep. Kind of a love-hate relationship with Challenge, but fortunately the ritual I have to go through because of the difficulty mounting them gives me some comfort once seated on their final destination.

I keep a cheap wheel set around that has looser rim tolerances than my good sets, so it is easier to mount up front (yes, still very much a Challenge ) I mount them on my cheap rims and pump them up to a really high pressure and let them marinate for a couple days before moving them to a good set of wheels. If they seat fine at high pressure on a sloppy rim, I have confidence that the batch is good.

My old PRs at an actual 30c width were the nicest tires I have probably ridden. That said, I have a lot more Grand Bois/Compass tires in rotation than Challenge because, you know.

[David Kirk]

Originally Posted by slambers3

Ok just to play the devil's advocate;
It is entirely possible when the OP installed the tire, there may have been an issue with the installation, not necessarily the tire. I've seen this happen with experienced hands, not just the novice changing an occasional flat by the side of the road. A pinched tube or bad fit of the tire to rim simply could result in a blowout, especially with a loose fitting tire/rim combination. Additionally, anyone who has spent any time working in a shop changing tires/tubes knows that if a tire blows off a rim for whatever reason, there's a good chance it won't say on the rim again. Whether that's from a stretched bead, damaged sidewall/bead, or initial manufacturing defect, it becomes hard to say.
Cotton casing "open tubular" tires are simply not as user friendly as conventional molded rubber tires. They have substantial performance benefits (lower rolling resistance, good cornering traction etc) but that comes at the cost of ease of use and long term durability. These tires aren't for everyone-Some folks just can't help but ride in the gutter and attract all of the broken glass in the road, and in that case your paper thin "ultra supple" casing can only protect your tube so much.

You are of course correct....despite my 40 years of working in the industry and mounting countless thousands of tires without incident there's always a first time. I fully admit that I may have not properly seated the tire the first time when it blew up just leaning against the wall despite the fact that they only had 50 psi in them.

And I suppose it's even possible that the second time I mounted the tire that I messed up again despite being super careful due to the first issue. Possible? Sure. Likely? No.

What I can say for sure is that I used a pair of these tires for two seasons (with multiple mount dismount cycles to fix flats or mess with wheels) without a single issue.....on these very same wheels mounted by the same guy, pumped up with the same pump/gauge. So when the one tire blew off twice (different sides of the tire FWIW) it was very out of character.

On top of that the testimonials on this thread have shown me that either no one here knows how to mount a tire or that the tires vary enough that many have had serious safety issues with this tire.

And....on top of that if I looked closely I could see and feel the difference in the actual bead of the tire between my old successful pair and the new scary pair. There was a design change or a very wide tolerance in how they were made.

In the end I threw the new ones out to be sure I never mistakenly mounted them again forgetting that they like to blow off the rim without cause or warning. Life is too short to ride wondering if the tires will stay on the rims.

Thanks as always for reading.

dave