The correct pronunciation of Pannier

[jtakeda]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

There is no point in trying to rationalize a French word with an English pronunciation. Just pronounce it as a French speak would. It isn't novel that 'derailleur' is pronounced differently in France (or Switzerland where I lived) - that is actually how you should say it.

I would walk into a shop and say, 'merde, j'ai cassé mon derailleur aujourd'hui' with my best accent and they would laugh insidiously as I reached for my credit card to pay the handsome sum to replace it. It's 'day-rye-yoor', not 'dee-rail-er'

<-- un banane qui danse -

I guess I kind of get what youre saying but by that standard we have to know every language?

I’ll pronounce Japanese words correctly but I’m not jumping down people’s throats whenever they say the word “Futon” incorrectly

[GOTHBROOKS]

proper pronunciation is a concept for the bourgeois.

[josephr]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Saddlebag.

Yep.

[Bob Ross]

"Those French...they have a different word for everything!" - Steve Martin

[charliedid]

Pronounce it any way you like just don't "correct" those who say it differently.

Now about those water bottles.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Sheldon Brown said:

Derailer, Not Derailleur!

The point about anglicization-in the Sheldon Brown quote- is made in the video.
There are many examples of words, in any language, that are "borrowed" in the words of the video lexicographer, by other languages, and adopt the borrower-language's pronunciation. Pannier is an English word borrowed from the French. The lexicographer gives "peloton" as another example, in this case of a word that was borrowed twice. It originally referred to a group of soldiers. The anglicized version, c. 16th century, was, and is, "platoon". Then it was borrowed again in the 1920's with the Tour becoming internationalized. I find this really interesting.

Another thing is that all the romance languages derive from latin, so there is that too.

[d_douglas]

Originally Posted by prototoast

How many posts deep do you think this thread can get without anybody actually watching the video?

I watched it and it was pretty interesting. I guess its because I speak French (kinda and poorly) that I sympathize with the 'correct' pronunciation. I don't typically correct people on these things, but since we were critiquing pronunciation, I spoke up. My French buddy once said he didn't give a shizz about perfecting English grammar - he just ensured that people understood what he was saying. He is married to an American and could live in Kansas and be known as'the guy with the funny/cool accent'. Anyways, his confidence is what inspired me in my French speaking capacities. Just don't ask Gothard, as he probably winced when hearing me speak French when I would come visit his family .

JTakeda, totally agree - people who have other language capacities like yourself probably cringe when others anglicize things too much.

Yinzerniner, funny you should spell out my name that way - when I lived in Geneva (Geneve?!) I chuckled when someone would call me, 'Monsieur Doo-glaa' (silent 's'). I kinda loved it.




Language is fascinating - I love it when I hear people switch fluidly from one language to another without skipping a beat.

A bientot...

[azrider]

Neat video. Prior to watching I would have said Pan-Yer.......now after having watched it I'd say........well you know

[spiderman]

The platoon/peloton reference was awesome
And the suspense of the u-tube presentation/interview
Was unexpected wordsmyth worthy

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by d_douglas

...

JTakeda, totally agree - people who have other language capacities like yourself probably cringe when others anglicize things too much.

...

It is not necessarily that things are being anglicized too much. Different countries/languages have different pronunciations.

I think it sounds stupid to say Firenze instead of Florence in the US. I am not going to say aluminium either.

Jeff

[d_douglas]

Interesting points.

I have always wondered why there are different words for physical places (eg Florence/Firenze, Bangkok/Krungthep, British Columbia/Colombie Brittanique.)

Why haven’t we used the local variation of name-place?



As for aluminium, I feel like that is a cruel joke we played on the Brits. That just sounds weird...

[flydhest]

Just curious how people pronounce the capital of France when speaking English.

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by donevwil

I am finding it quite amusing.

It's … the Internet.

[pinkshogun]

Us Rhode Islandiz say Pan-Yiz

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by spiderman

The platoon/peloton reference was awesome
And the suspense of the u-tube presentation/interview
Was unexpected wordsmyth worthy

yes, that was interesting, as was the justification for saying pannier exactly as I have been saying it for years. I never thought the French pronunciation made any sense at all.

Can there be spoilers in this thread? The word pannier was adopted by the English 700 years ago, so saying it with English pronunciation is more correct for an English speaker.