Time Trial bikes in road cycling are stupid, change my mind

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by fredd

I just don't see TTs as being that much more dangerous than mass starts, especially not due to the TT bike. Also it's not like cycling hasn't been actively moving towards being safer, helmet requirements in the peloton, the supertuck ban, disc brakes, the weight limit all represent a (sometimes questionable) move towards greater safety. However, I'm not aware of data that shows that TT bikes are in fact more dangerous than road bikes.

One could argue that one of the biggest factors that make cycling dangerous is speed, with E=M*Vˆ2 and all that. So should we try to make cycling slower? Mandate a minimum tire rolling resistance and roll back aero regulations?

I do think organizers should be punished for dangerous courses. Last year's TdF had some prime examples of stupid decisions. Also agree about TT bikes introducing a big cost barrier, especially for amateur racing. I would fully support banning TT bikes from at least lower levels of racing (as is the case in collegiate cycling for example).

Finally, the brunt of deaths in cycling are not in competition. Your local politicians have the power to save a lot more lives than the UCI.

All good points, I'm just questioning how making riders use an entirely different bike that encourages a more risky riding position that you need to train to even maintain makes sense when they already have perfectly good bikes to use and the race would be exactly the same.

What is being gained? The stages take 2 minutes less to complete?

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by prototoast

I'm honestly not sure. In particular, I'm not sure what is the bike and what is the circumstances.

Bernal crashed because he didn't see the bus stopped. Practicing your TT position means, among other things, keeping your head down. But a time trial effort on a regular road bike is also optimized by keeping your head down. If TT bikes were banned, would he not have been practicing in the head down position?

What about Froome? He was supposedly riding no-handed putting on jacket when hit by a gust of wind. That definitely wasn't the fault of riding in aerobars. Was it a disc wheel that caught the wind more? Maybe, but it's not necessary to ban TT bikes if you only want to ban disc wheels.

What about Chloe Dygert? Admittedly I think her crash, at her particular speed may have been avoided if she were on a road bike, but when it comes to winding descents in a race, I think riders tend to calibrate to a particular risk assessment rather than a particular speed. So even if a road bike lets a rider corner more precisely, in a racing environment, the rider will increase speed on the descent based on the improved cornering until the risk is equal. In the 2016 Olympic road race, Annemiek van Vleuten was in a similar position, essentially doing an individual time trial on a road bike down a winding descend, and suffered a similar fate, despite the potential advantages of the road bike.

I don't mean to determinatively say that TT bikes do not make cycling more dangerous, but the nature of racing is inherently what creates risk, and it's not clear to me that riders would actually have lower rates of injuries if TT bikes were eliminated. Think about the TdF--do more riders crash on a TT stage or a mass start stage? I haven't seen good data on crashes, but I would assume the crash rate is much higher on mass start stages. I know your particular question was about TTs with TT bikes vs TTs on road bikes, but at the margin, I would expect that converting a single mass start stage to a TT on TT bikes would reduce crashes by more than forcing all the riders to ride their road bikes on existing TT stages.

I see what you're saying but imagine if everyone was on a TT bike for a mass start stage? Utter chaos. I'm just saying at best the bike is harder to control just because of the handlebars, riding position, and higher speed, and it's awfully easy to list off big crashes from when people are training on TT bikes even though presumably time in the TT bike is a fraction of time spent on a road bike. But I have no data and this is speculation. Again I'm just wondering what benefit the TT bike provides in a time trial race.

[AngryScientist]

I think TT bikes are a cool facet of the sport of road racing. I find it interesting and cool that engineers, designers, coaches and athletes work together to design the fastest bikes in the world, which are a specific tool for a specific job.

Yes, I think the sport would lose something if we banned an entire class of bikes.

[tomato coupe]

A friend rear ended a pickup truck while commuting to work on his (steel) road bike. I think steel road bikes and bike commuting should be banned.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

. Again I'm just wondering what benefit the TT bike provides in a time trial race.

roughly 2-3mph faster on same power on a relatively flat course.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

I think TT bikes are a cool facet of the sport of road racing. I find it interesting and cool that engineers, designers, coaches and athletes work together to design the fastest bikes in the world, which are a specific tool for a specific job.

Yes, I think the sport would lose something if we banned an entire class of bikes.

Never having TT bike races is not what I'm suggesting, I'm suggesting that it should be its own discipline from road racing, and not be included in stage races, so that nobody has to ride a TT bike or train on one unless they absolutely want to. To me it's the same thing as forcing road racers to train on a MTB or a track bike. It's just a different thing.

[Clean39T]

We need mandatory 44mm tires on TT bikes. Improved grip for braking and they aren’t any slower, so why not?

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Never having TT bike races is not what I'm suggesting, I'm suggesting that it should be its own discipline from road racing, and not be included in stage races, so that nobody has to ride a TT bike or train on one unless they absolutely want to. To me it's the same thing as forcing road racers to train on a MTB or a track bike. It's just a different thing.

Haha, if you did this, all those poor TT bike racers would have to learn to run and swim to compete!

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Never having TT bike races is not what I'm suggesting, I'm suggesting that it should be its own discipline from road racing, and not be included in stage races, so that nobody has to ride a TT bike or train on one unless they absolutely want to. To me it's the same thing as forcing road racers to train on a MTB or a track bike. It's just a different thing.

Maybe mountain stages should also be split off as separate events so non-climbers don’t have to ride or train on a climbing bike?

[fried bake]

Froome was blowing his nose. So, to be clear, if the TT bikes were designed with plain wheels and not the disk this would probably not have happened but the thing is a sail and coupled with the speed and poor inherent handling, you get ish like this. #facts

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.eur...in-training-cr


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[robt57]

Time Trial bikes in road cycling are stupid, change my mind

Change your mind? I agree totally. Have been saying for years no place in Racing unless on a track.

Rather see all the riders on Little 500 fixies for a 10 and a 20k TT.
All going up or basically flat courses.. Or a 30k TTT on fixies...

Goofy aero kits optional, with a Purple or Orange jersey awarded for most goofy aero kit.

[Gianni Bianchi]

TTs have always been a fascinating part of our sport. Individual, TTT or 2up (remember the Baracchi Trophy? I wish they'd bring it back).

I think the bigger issue is people riding full tuck on public roads. Yes you have to practice that somewhere but to ride full gas in a full tuck (TT bike or regular road bike) is flat out irresponsible on public roads. At no time should any cyclists lose their situational awareness.

Hell, last summer I was going full gas (head up) down a 5km KOM segment and toward the end of the segment I passed a guy on a TT rig, head down, and at the end of this segment you have to navigate a round-about and i went through it at 60kph and I'm guessing he tried to hold my wheel after I passed him cuz as i exited the round-about I heard that unmistakable sound of carbon and human body hitting tarmac. Assuming he tried to navigate in the TT bars, rather than put his hands on the bull horn bars. Stupid.

As for the expense... I think it's stupid. Road bikes are insanely expensive and requiring an aspiring young racer to buy a couple of road bikes AND a TT bike is killing off the youth in this sport.

Get rid of them? Not possible. But I'm not a fan of them. Would be way cooler if the UCI made the rules to say you had to use your road bike for TTs, but that'll never happen.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Maybe mountain stages should also be split off as separate events so non-climbers don’t have to ride or train on a climbing bike?

Again since you seem to have extreme difficulty comprehending what I'm saying, I think there should still be time trials in road stage races. What I'm saying is riding an "unrestricted" type of bike should be its own discipline, kind of like how a formula one car isn't allowed at an autocross.

[Spdntrxi]

Originally Posted by mtechnica

Again since you seem to have extreme difficulty comprehending what I'm saying, I think there should still be time trials in road stage races. What I'm saying is riding an "unrestricted" type of bike should be its own discipline, kind of like how a formula one car isn't allowed at an autocross.

TT bikes are restricted to UCI rules.

[mtechnica]

Originally Posted by robt57

Change your mind? I agree totally. Have been saying for years no place in Racing unless on a track.

Rather see all the riders on Little 500 fixies for a 10 and a 20k TT.
All going up or basically flat courses.. Or a 30k TTT on fixies...

Goofy aero kits optional, with a Purple or Orange jersey awarded for most goofy aero kit.

See you get the point. Making them ride a fixie is just as arbitrary as (in effect) making them ride a TT bike, and the level of competition as well as the outcome would be identical. So if one is an expensive PITA and one is reasonable and probably safer...