OT: Boeing 737 MAX

[Jaybee]

So two (perhaps unrelated) crashes in the last 6 months of this plane. Every country except the US and Canada has grounded this plane until it's airworthiness is assured.

From my reading, something to do with flight control software issue? Dallas Morning News has a good article on pilot complaints.

Thoughts? Especially from saab2k? (I understand if it's not possible for you to comment at this time).

[vincenz]

I’m thinking it’s a pilot training/experience issue combined with a software issue. I don’t think it’s a coincidence it happened in Indonesia and Africa and not a European or North American country.

Either way, doesn’t look good for Boeing.

[gone]

Well, I'm flying in a week. The plane? 737-800.

Wish me luck.

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by gone

Well, I'm flying in a week. The plane? 737-800.

Wish me luck.

Different plane. The 737 Max 8 is not the 737-800


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[Tony T]

It's may not be just the software, but possibly how the software responds to erroneous information:

"The concern after the Lion Air crash was that erroneous readings from poorly maintained sensors in the nose of the plane might have fooled the automatic systems into falsely concluding that the plane was traveling sharply upward and in danger of stalling. The automatic systems may then have forced the nose down significantly, sending the plane into a steep dive into the ocean."

With the Lion crash, every time the pilots attempted to climb from the dive, the software overrode their decision.

Also...

"In its statement, the F.A.A. said that it had “no basis to order grounding the aircraft.”
"Boeing reiterated in a statement late Tuesday that it had “full confidence” in the 737 Max 8. It noted that the F.A.A. had taken no action and “based on the information currently available, we do not have any basis to issue new guidance to operators.”
"For decades, the F.A.A. has used a network of outside experts, known as F.A.A. designees, to certify that aircraft meet safety standards. In 2005, the regulator shifted its approach for how it delegated authority outside the agency, creating a new program through which aircraft manufacturers like Boeing could choose their own employees to be the designees and help certify their planes."

[Tony T]

If you're wondering why the EU and not the US grounded all 737-Max's:

The company (Boeing), through its political action committee, funnels millions of dollars into the campaign accounts of lawmakers from both political parties. A list of a year’s worth of political spending on Boeing’s website stretches on for 14 pages, listing campaign contributions to lawmakers ranging from a city councilman in South Carolina to Representative Nancy Pelosi of California, who is now the House speaker.

People need to vote with their feet, and not book any flights on American, Southwest or Air Canada (and also skip United with the Max9)

.

[NHAero]

FWIW, my wife was flying on a 737 MAX later this week and we changed the reservation to another plane.

[Bentley]

So until someone looks at the FDR its all speculation. I worked in aviation and space for years, its pretty common, an accident occurs and then everyone has a theory that is not based on any real information.

I flew a 737 Max 8 about a week and a half ago, flew thru some bad weather coming out of SFO and encountered plenty of turbulence along the way. I assure you that the people with skin in this game, Boeing, the Engine Manufacturers all would be grounding the plane if there was credible evidence that there is a problem with the plane. It will all be determined in due time.

At the end of the day, if you are not comfortable by all means fly a different plane, but I am sure that the FAA and Boeing will make the right call.

[gone]

Originally Posted by RobJ

Different plane. The 737 Max 8 is not the 737-800


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Maybe I'll survive then.

[Jaybee]

I wouldn't worry too much about flying on a MAX8. In fact, I was on one last week. 350 of them have been in service for 2 years, with thousands of worry-free flights per week. Two crashes isn't statistically significant, though it sets off alarm bells in our lizard brains.

[RobJ]

Originally Posted by Tony T

People need to vote with their feet, and not book any flights on American, Southwest or Air Canada (and also skip United with the Max9)

Couldn’t agree more but it’s hard to avoid the influence of $$. No different than the Monsanto agri-business USDA connection, EPA and your choice of Fortune 500 violators etc....





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[Elefantino]

Considering today's tweets, someone must be shorting Boeing stock.

[CunegoFan]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

So two (perhaps unrelated) crashes in the last 6 months of this plane. Every country except the US and Canada has grounded this plane until it's airworthiness is assured.

From my reading, something to do with flight control software issue? Dallas Morning News has a good article on pilot complaints.

Thoughts? Especially from saab2k? (I understand if it's not possible for you to comment at this time).

What a disaster for Boeing.

I seems disengagement of the automatic systems is done differently than the regular 737, and Boeing may have pushed to not have pilots recertify on the new plane so it would be a drop in replacement.

So in the Lion Air example, a incorrectly installed sensor caused the auto systems to nose the plane down. On previous flights the crew disabled the auto systems but on the last one the crew could not figure out how to turn it off.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by CunegoFan

What a disaster for Boeing.

I seems disengagement of the automatic systems is done differently than the regular 737, and Boeing may have pushed to not have pilots recertify on the new plane so it would be a drop in replacement.

So in the Lion Air example, a incorrectly installed sensor caused the auto systems to nose the plane down. On previous flights the crew disabled the auto systems but on the last one the crew could not figure out how to turn it off.

This matches what I’ve read as well, and it makes me think part of the reason that the FAA hasn’t grounded the planes is because SW, American, AirCanada have certified their pilots on the new software, and maybe others haven’t or consider the equipment failure to be sufficient for grounding even if they know their pilots know how to override. That’s total conjecture, and part of the reason I specifically paged Saab2k in the OP - I think he flies 737s, and maybe MAXs.

[GregL]

I suggest waiting a few days before condemning the FAA for not grounding the 737 Max series. In 1979, the FAA took 12 days to ground the DC-10. The root cause of the accident which precipitated the DC-10 grounding turned out to be an unapproved, inappropriate maintenance procedure. It's just too soon to pass judgement on this crash and the aircraft type involved. In the meantime, I'd feel very safe flying on a 737 Max operated by a US airline.

Greg