Carbon Wheels gripes.

tylercheung · #1 12-08-2018, 08:46 PM

Saturday night mulling...this is one of those industry trends, which seem to go hand in hand w/ disc brakes. Everyone (journalist wise) seems to write how these things are the best thing since sliced bread. The pricing is still out of reach for what I think "acceptable".

I mean - $600 or so for a new Archetype alloy build, maybe $900-1200 for nicer stuff, i.e. HED, CK hubs.

Vs. at least $1500 for say, a Reynolds wheelset, (maybe less now w/ discounts), and the ENVE's approaching $3,000....yowza....

And I'm sure they're good but are they 2-4x as good?

I think hopefully the technology matures enough so it becomes price competitive, but for someone who just wants to ride bikes in cool places and not racing, it's hard to NOT stick w/ alloy...

kppolich · #2 12-08-2018, 11:42 PM

Define 'good'

If good is lighter- then maybe, but my HEDs with alloy brake track are just as aero and stop better than any carbon wheelset out there, I don't care what kind of gimmick carbon brake track you have.

Add in the disc brake variable where the braking surface is removed and you might have something. The differences between a Zipp 404 and HED Jet 6 are absolutely zero. They are both 'deep' section wheels. On is full carbon and one isn't.

fogrider · #3 12-09-2018, 12:50 AM

if you want to ride and faster, aero is where it's at. the deeper the faster. if it's windy, then tougher to control, but still manageable around 40mm. if you want hill climbing, you want lightweight. Reynolds makes a pad that works really well, it's almost as good as with aluminum rims (enough power to lock up the rear wheel). I've found that the braking is fine for the roads around the San Francisco Bay Area. I have a bike with disc brakes and its great, but it's just not going to climb like my bike with lightweight carbon climbing wheels!

As for cost, there's always tubulars in the used market. I know some folks are afraid of tubulars, but its really not that hard, and you can always use tape.

dem · #4 12-09-2018, 07:26 AM

I look to China for what the "real" cost of these items are, since that's where they're all made, so by that standard I'd expect the cost will eventually drop due to competition. You can get a set of deep, wide carbon clinchers for $500 (plenty of threads on if this is a good idea or not, I'm just referring to the price point.)

I was tempted to try these out but I still can't get myself to ride carbon rim-brake clinchers, even for sunny day only.

https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...950354235.html

30mm: 1315g +/-5%
38mm: 1235g +/-5%
45mm: 1375g +/-5%
50mm: 1295g +/-5%
60mm: 1455g +/-5%
88mm: 1815g +/-5%

oldpotatoe · #5 12-09-2018, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylercheung

Saturday night mulling...this is one of those industry trends, which seem to go hand in hand w/ disc brakes. Everyone (journalist wise) seems to write how these things are the best thing since sliced bread. The pricing is still out of reach for what I think "acceptable".

I mean - $600 or so for a new Archetype alloy build, maybe $900-1200 for nicer stuff, i.e. HED, CK hubs.

Vs. at least $1500 for say, a Reynolds wheelset, (maybe less now w/ discounts), and the ENVE's approaching $3,000....yowza....

And I'm sure they're good but are they 2-4x as good?

I think hopefully the technology matures enough so it becomes price competitive, but for someone who just wants to ride bikes in cool places and not racing, it's hard to NOT stick w/ alloy...

Of course not and in some ways not as good..

'win on sunday, sell on monday'..I doubt ANY $1550-$LOT$ addition to any bike will make a yuge performance difference. Carbon wheels, along with their big $ is the stuff of the marketing department, not the engineering department. They even fail the $1 per gram, weight savings..particularly carbon clinchers..right up there with ceramic bearings. IMHO, of course.

ergott · #6 12-09-2018, 10:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylercheung

I think hopefully the technology matures enough so it becomes price competitive, but for someone who just wants to ride bikes in cool places and not racing, it's hard to NOT stick w/ alloy...

It already has matured. Look at the offerings from Boyd, Nox, and FSE. They are all excellent and nowhere near the price of the most expensive wheels out there.

oldpotatoe · #7 12-09-2018, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ergott

It already has matured. Look at the offerings from Boyd, Nox, and FSE. They are all excellent and nowhere near the price of the most expensive wheels out there.

But still $1000+ with pretty basic, private label hubs..

ergott · #8 12-09-2018, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

But still $1000+ with pretty basic, private label hubs..

Boyd hubs aren't off the shelf, he has his own shells to spec. The flange spacing is improved which is real nice. I've built a few sets with them already. Best part for customers is they are like DT in that you can swap endcaps for compatibility to your hearts desire. Bonus, you don't need special tools for a complete overhaul.

macaroon · #9 12-09-2018, 10:37 AM

$849 with DT 240 hubs from a reputable builder.

https://www.wheelsfar.com/50mm-x-25m...50-cm-25u.html

I have a pair and they've been very reliable, although I've not done any really long descents on them with prolonged braking. The rims are possibly slightly overbuilt as they appear to be heavier than a comparable Enve rim.

Mzilliox · #10 12-09-2018, 11:27 AM

i get you OP. i think many miss the point of your post. the gains per dollar are not there, most of us ride them because they look cool, lets be honest.

if you depend on race wins, find that marginal gain, if you ride to ride, they are virtually worthless in comparison.

mhespenheide · #11 12-09-2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylercheung

...for someone who just wants to ride bikes in cool places and not racing, it's hard to NOT stick w/ alloy...

You're probably describing at least 80% of Paceline members, if not 90 or 95%. And most of those members are either on aluminum rims or admit that carbon wheels are a "marginal gain". If you don't need or want that margin, stick with alloy and be content.

Edit: On review, what mzilliox said.

Burnette · #12 12-09-2018, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

i get you OP. i think many miss the point of your post. the gains per dollar are not there, most of us ride them because they look cool, lets be honest.

if you depend on race wins, find that marginal gain, if you ride to ride, they are virtually worthless in comparison.

Oh what a hole we dig if you base everything off of function and need! Look at any Rapha or Assos thread and read the passion and hypocrisy, it's just clothing!

Super Record, Dura Ace, Oakley Shades and Starbucks coffee, purchases of the heart though they'll fight you tooth and nail how it's all so much better and worth it. And to that I say, awesome. Get that jersey, group, shades and cup if Joe if you like it, no qualms from me.

Life is for living, explore it and enjoy it. If budget is a thing OP should go used, there are always wheels of every stripe for sale in all bike classifieds.

OP should give them a go and decide for him/her self.

FlashUNC · #13 12-09-2018, 12:33 PM

If you prefer tubulars, there's zero reason to ride alloy tubular rims.

oldpotatoe · #14 12-10-2018, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

If you prefer tubulars, there's zero reason to ride alloy tubular rims.

Except they are less $..I just built a set of DT350/HED tubular rims for about $650...24/28..Sapim Race. Not sayin some of the no name, private label stuff doesn't work but....

peanutgallery · #15 12-10-2018, 07:40 AM

I stuck a pair of carbon wheels on a plus bike, it saved well over a pound of rolling weight and really changed the feel of that particular bike. I thought it was worth the extra dough

As far as the rim versus disc? That dilemma has been solved for you, plus you'll have plenty of room for all those 700x28 Paselas that you all seem to like