How W I D E are you?

[scottcw2]

Tires, that is.

Having read Jan Heine's post on wider tires - https://janheine.wordpress.com/2018/...should-i-ride/ - this part caught my attention:

"To me, tires narrower than 38 mm don’t really make sense any longer. 38 mm tires still give you the “connected to the pavement” sensation that makes a racing bike feel so fast. Below 38 mm, all you gain is harshness. The bike doesn’t feel any better, just more jiggly."

I am interested in more than just one Jan's opinion on this from real world riding. At what point do you find that sweet spot where any narrower is too harsh - 25? 28? 32? is Jan right at 38?

Thanks for the insights.

[simonov]

On 700c wheels, I find anything over 32 to be sluggish and tractor like. For fast road riding, I still think 25 is the sweet spot and 28-30 for crappy roads without losing too much of that nimble feeling. When I wear out my last set of 38s, I'll never go that big on 700c wheels again.

[AngryScientist]

i completely disagree with Jan on this one.

for my perception, 38mm is WAY too big for the road. i tried a set of the 38c compass tires for a while, and didnt like them at all. felt too sluggish to me, and worse, turning and handling felt imprecise and almost dangerous.

25c on the road is perfect for me.

[MattTuck]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

I am interested in more than just one Jan's opinion on this from real world riding.

I see what you did there

I find 32s are the best combo for the real riding that I do (or lately, that I'd do if I had time). Sure, can have dreams about crazy days of dirt roads and lust for something bigger. But combo of dirt and crappy new england pavement, and being a 200+ pound guy, 32s seem to make the fewest compromises on comfort and performance.

[R3awak3n]

I go by feel and I much prefer 28-32 on the road... Anything larger starts feeling sluggish. Now, maybe its not, maybe its as fast, ect ect but I am the only ridding the bike and I like the feel of a skinner tire on the road. Mix pavement is another story... 35-38mm is great. Gravel bike has 650x47mm but they are usually too much for the gravel round these parts. Surprisingly roll nicely on the pavement but I would rather be on my road bike.

[prototoast]

This probably depends a lot on rider weight. I'm about 185 and usually go for 28 tires on the road. 25 ROK, but feel harsher without feeling any faster. I've used 38 tires for road riding, and they're not terrible, but definitely feel a little sluggish if I want to go fast. Though I should caveat that the bike that fits 38 mm tires has longer chainstays and greater trail, so it's not a complete apples-to-apples comparison, though there are necessarily some geometry accommodations that must be made to fit larger tires, so such a direct comparison may not even be possible.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by simonov

On 700c wheels, I find anything over 32 to be sluggish and tractor like. For fast road riding, I still think 25 is the sweet spot and 28-30 for crappy roads without losing too much of that nimble feeling. When I wear out my last set of 38s, I'll never go that big on 700c wheels again.

Agreed.

Undamped suspension may work for light riders who sit and spin, but not for those of us with tree-trunk legs and big feet, who mash the pedals and spend time out of the saddle..

38s catch a lot of wind too.

Gravel roads though, 35-42mm is purrrfect.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[benb]

Yah I also disagree with Jan here.

Depends on the bike a lot too.

I have 26c tires on my Domane, that bike soaks up a ridiculous amount of shock and vibration, even getting into 28c seems overkill on that bike.

My Space Horse I've tried everything from 23c-25c (just swapped wheels on and tried a ride or two) along to 28c, 32c, 35c, 38c. That bike is really harsh with smaller tires and it's geometry is not suited to them. It came with 35c and is really designed for bigger tires and the uses cases where bigger tires work best. But even there 38c is WAY too big for cases where the bike is mostly used on pavement. Right now I have 32c tires on it (Panaracer) and that really seems to be the sweet spot. 28c kind of sucks if you go down easy dirt trails. Not enough float if you hit loose sand. 32c you can just barely get by when you hit looser stuff. But the 32c tires still roll fast and feel good on the road. 38c definitely feels like a tractor when you get on pavement, that's a great description IMO. I feel like 38c I'm giving up a ton of speed if I'm pavement. 38c is completely transformative & massively superior once you get onto dirt though. 28c you might walk in the loose sections. 32c you gotta go slow & be careful but I won't walk. 38c I can hammer through and just have to be a bit more careful braking/cornering than I would on a mountain bike.

I would say I need to try a really good 35c tire though.. the 35c tires that bike came from were absolutely horrible. A 35c in the Panaracer or Compass/Herse might not feel like a tractor like the 38s. I feel like getting right at the sweet spot on that bike is really worth it as it makes the bike the most fun when you feel like you can hit widest array of pavement & dirt and enjoy it all.

I will say I did a flattish century on 38c tires once. They sure felt like a drag.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Agreed.

Undamped suspension may work for light riders who sit and spin, but not for those of us with tree-trunk legs and big feet, who mash the pedals and spend time out of the saddle..

38s catch a lot of wind too.

Gravel roads though, 35-42mm is purrrfect.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

and are also heavier than 28s which gotta count for something

[cmb5286]

I'm in the 32c camp for rough road rides. 38-42 for gravel rides.

[unterhausen]

I am riding 32mm because the roads in Pennsylvania suck. I went from 25 to 28 and then up to 32. The 28's I bought were exactly the same size as the 25's they replaced, thanks to Bontrager quality control. And then the bead let go. At least with 32's, I have a fighting chance of making it through the potholes without getting a pinch flat.

I was wondering if 28's might not work better in France, there was only one road in the 1000k of PBP that I rode that made me wish for wider tires. I might get some 28mm tires in 2023. OTOH, I rode a number of brevets this year on 40mm tires and they felt fine to me. Sure, they feel a little sluggish for the first initial burst of an acceleration. The 40mm tires replaced some crummy 38mm tires, which also rode fine.

[yinzerniner]

Having ridden a bunch on light, slick 35s on paved roads my assessment mirrors a lot of the previous posters' opinions. While the gain in comfort is noticeable the additional rolling and wind resistance, turning and cornering vagueness and the decreased acceleration make them less than ideal for tarmac.

For a heavy dude (195-210 riding weight depending on season) 28-32 is the sweet spot. Tubular would be ideal but they're simply not as practical as tubeless. Very excited about the possibility of "tubeless tubular" tires, although Challenge has a lot of construction deficiencies to work out before I'd ever try them.
https://www.bikeradar.com/news/chall...an-wall-tyres/

[FlashUNC]

25-30 really, and that's with awful East Bay roads.

Anymore tire than that just feels needless for sticking to pavement.

[XXtwindad]

Up to a point, I'm inclined to agree with JH. 38c seems too wide.

I ride 35c tires (G One Speeds) on the some of the same East Bay roads as the OP (and Flash) and I like the "bump mitigation" factor. I might go down to a 32 or a 30, but probably not less than that.

What really intrigues me though, is JH's evangelical belief in "wider is better." He helped usher in that movement (along with HED) and deserves credit for altering people's misconceptions. He's also been on record as advocating for alternative subcompact gearing (I think he mentioned a 26/42 combo he favored for climbing), all of which is for the better, IMO.

But it's as if he doesn't have some rubber in the game:

Quote: "That doesn’t mean you can just slap any wide tires on your bike and expect it to go fast. What will change your speed is how supple your tires are: Tires with high-performance casings are faster, more comfortable and offer better traction, regardless of their width. If you choose heavy, reinforced ‘touring’ models when you switch to wider tires, you’ll likely to be disappointed – they’ll roll slower than racing tires because of their sturdy casings, not because of the extra width.

"So we know that supple casings are key, and that width doesn’t matter. What size tires should we run then? Is wider always better? And what about wheel size?"

Translation: to get the benefit of wider tires, you need to purchase Rene Hearse tires.

[rowebr]

I used to ride long distance, brevets and other all day adventure rides. For those rides I used 650Bx38mm Compass tires and they were great.

Now my road riding is pretty much all fast group rides, nothing longer than 2 hours or so. In retrospect, all the long distance riding I did in the past was pretty much at "just riding along" pace. For going fast, accelerating, feeling the road in corners, a 25mm or 28mm 700c racing clincher is perfect for me.

The big 38mm tires feel like they don't accelerate as well, and when riding them at a cushy pressure they are too squishy in fast cornering. I do think the Compass 38mm tires roll about equally well once I get them up to speed as the 25mm GP4000.