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  #31  
Old 11-23-2017, 11:30 AM
CMiller CMiller is offline
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Originally Posted by Heisenberg View Post
Not to rain on your parade, but the geometry on that frame is barge-worthy. Couple that with a mass-positive (read: heavy) tubeset and obsolescent axle/brake standards, I'd move on. If you're used to road racing bikes (as your extensive purchase history and previous threads would entail), it'll be a disappointment - like going from driving 911s to a long-bed diesel dually F350. Or worse - a box truck.

JMO, from someone who's ridden a lot of silly gravel bikes and has a road-centric perspective tempered by a youth racing MTB DH.
I don't agree with this personally. Different bikes for different purposes, fat tires on a sturdier road bike can be so so so fun. Don't expect it to climb and sprint like the lightweights, but love it for all the great riding it can do much better.
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  #32  
Old 11-23-2017, 12:47 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Originally Posted by Imaking20 View Post
I think all the niche bikes are stupid. The industry has gone towards a different bike for every road, speed, and tire. Fortunately, it seems like it's starting to collapse again in the form of "all road" bikes but I still cringe every time I hear "my crit bike", "my gravel bike", or someone needing 35mm+ tires on what's basically a road bike.

I love going fast on pavement. I love taking risks on fast and technical descents. I also LOVE the sound of dirt under my tires. There's a mix of serenity and childhood playfulness in riding past where the pavement stops - and I'll do it all on the same bike. I've done fire and logging roads on a Venge, Tarmac, Soma Smoothie, and Colnago. I've tried 28s on a wide clincher and thought the little extra compliance on gravel was totally outweighed by the feeling of riding in a car with blown shocks to get there.

I'll look forward to getting out off the beaten path with you next year - whatever bike you're on. I'll be there happily on my road setup with 25s... Maybe some 27s! :O
depends on what gravel you ride, some gravel just can't be ridden on a road bike. I mean maybe possible but will not be fun.

this is the thing, why have 5 road bikes when you can have 2, 1 gravel bike, 1 mtb, 1 city bike.
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  #33  
Old 11-23-2017, 12:51 PM
Imaking20 Imaking20 is offline
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Right, there is some gravel I ride that I have to leave my purse at home.
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  #34  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:00 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
It really depends on the price of the frame. $1500, I would want something with flat mount and TA, $800, I would be fine with QR and post. And nothing wrong with QR and post, at all, its all just fine but if I am going to spend a ton of money on something I want something current.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
a lot of groading can be done on a road bike and its actually more fun on a road bike. Love having to pick the best path on 28mm. .
Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
I like the BMC but personally I would get something else. I have an elephant NFE and its awesome but I have been craving a "fast" gravel bike. Something like the open or hakka or steel with a carbon fork.

Not sure but based on the kind of bikes you like ridding, I think you will prefer the carbon/light steel with carbon fork, over that BMC. And I really love BMCs and that one is super cool, built by falconeer but imo and with what I have going on right now... and I would not get rid of my steel gravel bike because its also my light touring bike and its great at that and also great on gravel.
It'd be $1K for the frameset. At that price there are definitely other options, but for what it is, that's a good deal. And I do love the fork design and graphics (or lack thereof..).

That said, I lean to the fast and light side of things in general, and would likely here too. As much as I would like to do some touring, I don't see that happening in 2018 (as far as multi-day unsupported goes). And my commute doesn't require carrying a lot of stuff. I had a Gen 1 Fargo back in the day and found it to be too heavy and clumsy for road commuting, so it really didn't see much use. I don't want to be in that spot again.

I was thinking this bike would be for truly chunky gravel that requires 35mm+ - we're talking logging roads and overgrown doubletrack - but maybe that is just too niche for me.

I might do better riding that stuff on a 29er with skinnier tires that I could use for other purposes as well.

Hmm. I already have road bikes I like, so I don't need a gravel bike that can double as a road bike. I'm not racing cross, so I don't need a cross bike that can double as a gravel bike. Commuting in the wet/dark on heavily traveled roads is the suck no matter what bike you're riding, so do I really need something there? And I would like to do some MTB this year...

Guess I'm answering my question. 29er that's light and fast seems like the right tool for the job - use it for the burly long-distance chunky gravel, and put fatter tires on it for XC racing. And just ride the Davidson with 27mm tubbies on pea-gravel and dirt-roads.
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  #35  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:04 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Originally Posted by toosahn View Post
I've had my BMC Monstercross for, I think, 3 years now. It's gone through multiple build-design iterations transforming it slowly from a comfortable drop-bar commuter to a simplified, all-rounder in its current guise.

I went from 32 to 35 to 38 to now 44mm tires. And I want to go bigger.

Recently switched:
-2x compact to 1x 38t Oval chainring
-42mm Compass tires to BG Rock and Roads
-Soma Hwy1 bars to Jones loop bars and Paul comp Canti levers (so glad I did this whole cockpit change)
-Stock front fork for Black Mountain 55m rake black fork (less trail)
-185mm to 177.5mm Praxis Works crankset
-Wide range Praxis works 10 speed rear cassette

I also carry, what feels like, the kitchen sink with it. I carry tools (including a 15mm cone wrench for the Paul mini motos), full tire repair kit, hand pump, CO2 inflator, titanium spork (just in case), hand sanitizer, front and rear lights, front and rear racks and a front bag. Lock and cable is added and removed depending on whether I'm commuting around or headed to the trails. It's heavy but prepared for anything.

I use it for everything from getting groceries and carrying laundry to the laundromat to taking on the wonderful redwood lined trails here in the Berkeley/Oakland area. It is fun and annoying when people question your choice of being on what looks like a rigid road bike on the trails but I laugh it off and say the challenge (and the discomfort) is what makes it more fun.

Love this bike:



That is a really cool looking bike, but for where I live and what I do, it doesn't make sense for me. If I lived in the flatter part of the city and ran errands by bike, or in a more rural area where the dirt was more accessible out my front door, it'd be a good option.
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  #36  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:13 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaking20 View Post
I think all the niche bikes are stupid. The industry has gone towards a different bike for every road, speed, and tire. Fortunately, it seems like it's starting to collapse again in the form of "all road" bikes but I still cringe every time I hear "my crit bike", "my gravel bike", or someone needing 35mm+ tires on what's basically a road bike.

I love going fast on pavement. I love taking risks on fast and technical descents. I also LOVE the sound of dirt under my tires. There's a mix of serenity and childhood playfulness in riding past where the pavement stops - and I'll do it all on the same bike. I've done fire and logging roads on a Venge, Tarmac, Soma Smoothie, and Colnago. I've tried 28s on a wide clincher and thought the little extra compliance on gravel was totally outweighed by the feeling of riding in a car with blown shocks to get there.

I'll look forward to getting out off the beaten path with you next year - whatever bike you're on. I'll be there happily on my road setup with 25s... Maybe some 27s! :O
Amen to all that. I think the vast majority of what we could do with 25s/27s is good enough for me when thinking about long rides that combine rural paved roads and some dirt - linking up rides over by Mt. Hood, some stuff out by the coast - it just takes picking the right routes. I mean, I rode Dixie Mt Road out at the end of Skyline on 23s last fall, and have no issues riding Leif or Saltzman on the same - the issue there is more discs vs. rim brakes when its wet than tire size.. I do want to do some off-road specific rides though as well. And that's probably best suited to just using a 29er hardtail or rigid. Adding one of those to the garage would give a lot less overlap than bringing in a road/cross/gravel mashup.
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  #37  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:30 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
Amen to all that. I think the vast majority of what we could do with 25s/27s is good enough for me when thinking about long rides that combine rural paved roads and some dirt - linking up rides over by Mt. Hood, some stuff out by the coast - it just takes picking the right routes. I mean, I rode Dixie Mt Road out at the end of Skyline on 23s last fall, and have no issues riding Leif or Saltzman on the same - the issue there is more discs vs. rim brakes when its wet than tire size.. I do want to do some off-road specific rides though as well. And that's probably best suited to just using a 29er hardtail or rigid. Adding one of those to the garage would give a lot less overlap than bringing in a road/cross/gravel mashup.
it really all depends on what kind of gravel yall ride. Some of what we call gravel can easily be done on a road bike, I am prety sure I rode that road at the end of Skyline last summer. I was on my NFE and it was nothing, could easily road bike it. Also forest park, thats easy gravel, easily done on a road bike.

But take this ride

http://www.oregonbikepacking.com/portfolio-posts/trask/

which I recommend to everyone in PDX. Its FANTASTIC. And some sections you want more than 28s. Most of the route is also gravel so a dedicated gravel bike is fun.

Also a lot of the routes on that site don't require but are better on a bike with bigger tires. But then again, depends on what you are trying to ride. 80% of what people call gravel now a days can be done on a road bike, There is some pebles on the road, someone screams GRAVEL!
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  #38  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:45 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cachagua View Post
Those other bikes you posted links to are all smaller than this Black Mountain, aren't they? I agree that the geometry of the Monstercrossers is toward the, uh, calmer end of the spectrum, but the one that emphasizes that quality the most would be one that's biggish for you.

Other thing I noticed was that you're not ruling out rim brakes, and that makes me think you ought to look at the Carl Strong dirt-road bike I've recently bought, which I might not end up riding much. PM me for some pictures if you like.
Those were just kind of examples of different kinds of bikes that were at least close to my size..

If you haven't posted any pics of your Carl Strong, send them over
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  #39  
Old 11-23-2017, 02:47 PM
Clean39T Clean39T is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
it really all depends on what kind of gravel yall ride. Some of what we call gravel can easily be done on a road bike, I am prety sure I rode that road at the end of Skyline last summer. I was on my NFE and it was nothing, could easily road bike it. Also forest park, thats easy gravel, easily done on a road bike.

But take this ride

http://www.oregonbikepacking.com/portfolio-posts/trask/

which I recommend to everyone in PDX. Its FANTASTIC. And some sections you want more than 28s. Most of the route is also gravel so a dedicated gravel bike is fun.

Also a lot of the routes on that site don't require but are better on a bike with bigger tires. But then again, depends on what you are trying to ride. 80% of what people call gravel now a days can be done on a road bike, There is some pebles on the road, someone screams GRAVEL!
That site is awesome. And yes, that's something I'm interested in doing for sure, even if it was driving to where the pavement ends and doing an out n back.
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  #40  
Old 11-23-2017, 03:07 PM
Imaking20 Imaking20 is offline
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Dixie Mountain for sure is no problem. I've done it on 23s and 25 tubulars (several clincher companions flatted). Not quite as quality as Dalles stuff, but very good. The gravel area I rode most in Vancouver was at the top of Larch Mountain and looks like those Trask photos. I've done it on 23s (sorta by accident), 25s, 26s, and 28s. My fastest times actually came on the Venge with 25s. The time on 23s I flatted a front tub - so the rocks were definitely a bit too much. And that wasn't super enjoyable even before.

Overall, I'm a happy camper on Arenbergs or Roubaixs. After Ryan's recent love affair with Vlaanderen, and my wife just killing a tire, I'll probably give those a shot.
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  #41  
Old 11-23-2017, 03:30 PM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imaking20 View Post
Dixie Mountain for sure is no problem. I've done it on 23s and 25 tubulars (several clincher companions flatted). Not quite as quality as Dalles stuff, but very good. The gravel area I rode most in Vancouver was at the top of Larch Mountain and looks like those Trask photos. I've done it on 23s (sorta by accident), 25s, 26s, and 28s. My fastest times actually came on the Venge with 25s. The time on 23s I flatted a front tub - so the rocks were definitely a bit too much. And that wasn't super enjoyable even before.

Overall, I'm a happy camper on Arenbergs or Roubaixs. After Ryan's recent love affair with Vlaanderen, and my wife just killing a tire, I'll probably give those a shot.
The photos of the trask are not the serious stuff though. Its gets much worse (better?) things go bad for smaller tires when its loose gravel, and a lot of it. Bigger tire is able to stay afloat, small tire will just sink.

Last edited by R3awak3n; 11-23-2017 at 03:56 PM.
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  #42  
Old 11-23-2017, 04:43 PM
john903 john903 is offline
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Oh I say just buy it you will have lots of fun. Also as far as rides, Don't forget
Vicious Cycle gravel rides. Ephrata, Goldendale, Levenworth, Ellensburg, and the big Kahuna Winthrop. I hope to see you there I will be on my blue Curtlo which I am in the process of lowering the gearing and putting on 30mm Schawlbe one Tubies.
Have Fun.
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  #43  
Old 11-23-2017, 07:29 PM
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FlashUNC FlashUNC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R3awak3n View Post
a lot of groading can be done on a road bike and its actually more fun on a road bike. Love having to pick the best path on 28mm. it is not going to be for everyone, I know some friends that hate gravel. They say its too bumpy.

I dunno, I went out into some small mountain in North Carolina. It was incredible. Road biked it, was excellent but the descents would have been amazing on my graveler.

Also, you should do D2R2, you will be into gravel I guarantee you. No cars, amazing views, awesome people.
Not into underbiking or the idea that somehow there's fun in using something beyond it's intended design capability.

Just not sure groading is my cuppa. Hydro brakes are the jam though.
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  #44  
Old 11-24-2017, 12:16 AM
John H. John H. is offline
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Parlee

Get the Parlee- it will ride circles around the BMC in terms of speed and ride quality.
It will feel road- worthy as well.
As an added bonus it will take full fenders like Honjos.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Clean39T View Post
Since the parade is still in the planning stages, you're only forecasting rain - and that's what I was asking for...

So, what would be a reasonable alternative that would check the boxes for someone who likes going fast on the road, and would presumably enjoy being able to move light and efficiently off-road as well?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-DeSalv...oAAOSw0wRaFhWG ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Parlee-Cheb...gAAOSwl9RaDyib ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Rocky-Mount...oAAOSwdjdaFZk6 ???

https://www.ebay.com/itm/MEECH-Custo...kAAOSwrfVZVW57 ???
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  #45  
Old 11-24-2017, 05:50 AM
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R3awak3n R3awak3n is offline
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I am into the Meech. Not into the logo much but thats a good price. Also pretty sure that you can message him and get a custom just like that for that price which is angreat deal.
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