Bottom bracket for a Campagnolo Triple crankset

[nachetetm]

As you are perhaps aware due to other threads i opened, I am "updating" an old steel bike with newer parts. My idea is to exchange its old Shimano 600 group for a Campagnolo Triple 10 speed. Wisdom from this forum school me on the differences between Campagnolo triple cranksets: Centaur and down use symmetric bottom brackets, Chorus and Record use asymmetric ones. With that in mind, I purchased a Chorus crankset, including its own Chorus bottom bracket (111mm, ISO taper, asymmetric spindle) for a BSA-threaded frame. To my surprise, the frame I am updating needs an Italian-threaded BB, and those are incredibly hard to find. Neco seems to have a good alternative, but those BB seem to be completely unavailable to purchase. Token seems to make a wide variety of BB, but I do not find the right one available. Any help with that?

My other option, after carefully reading the internet information, is to purchase a JIS taper, symmetric spindle with ITA threading. Those are a bit more easy to purchase. According to Sheldon Brown and other websites, to compensate for the different taper, the JIS BB should be 4mm shorter than the ISO BB. That means a 107 JIS ITA BB. Am I right, or am I making a mistake here? Is there any trick to correct the symmetry/asymmetry of the BB/Campy crankset, of should I not bother?

Is there any other alternative that I did not consider?

Thanks in advance!

[Mike V]

If there is a regular Italian BB available you can tap off the cups and exchange them.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by nachetetm

As you are perhaps aware due to other threads i opened, I am "updating" an old steel bike with newer parts. My idea is to exchange its old Shimano 600 group for a Campagnolo Triple 10 speed. Wisdom from this forum school me on the differences between Campagnolo triple cranksets: Centaur and down use symmetric bottom brackets, Chorus and Record use asymmetric ones. With that in mind, I purchased a Chorus crankset, including its own Chorus bottom bracket (111mm, ISO taper, asymmetric spindle) for a BSA-threaded frame. To my surprise, the frame I am updating needs an Italian-threaded BB, and those are incredibly hard to find. Neco seems to have a good alternative, but those BB seem to be completely unavailable to purchase. Token seems to make a wide variety of BB, but I do not find the right one available. Any help with that?

My other option, after carefully reading the internet information, is to purchase a JIS taper, symmetric spindle with ITA threading. Those are a bit more easy to purchase. According to Sheldon Brown and other websites, to compensate for the different taper, the JIS BB should be 4mm shorter than the ISO BB. That means a 107 JIS ITA BB. Am I right, or am I making a mistake here? Is there any trick to correct the symmetry/asymmetry of the BB/Campy crankset, of should I not bother?

Is there any other alternative that I did not consider?

Thanks in advance!

NOT a good idea..Altho JIS is the same 2 degree taper, it's actually larger in dimension..why Sheldon(RIP) mentioned a shorter one BUT, it will forever 'stretch' the crank flats, and you will be into a JIS from then on.

The cups of that BB tap off. The cups of Centaur BB are the same as Record/Chorus triple BB cups, not the spindle, just the cups.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/27542211251...UAAOSwwEVisgeD

BTW-this BB

https://www.ebay.com/itm/40380514710...cAAOSw5C5i5I2G

Looks like a triple Chorus BB, altho listed as a 102mm..I sent an message asking..

[rwsaunders]

Depending on what you want to invest in the bike, Phil Wood…110.5mm ST BB for Campag cranks with their Italian threaded cups is an alternative to a Campag 111mm BB.

https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/p...iant=559333265

https://phil-wood-co.myshopify.com/c...iant=552660517

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mike V

If there is a regular Italian BB available you can tap off the cups and exchange them.

Record/Chorus triple cups are different than double(102mm) cups..But, as I mentioned, the Centaur BB cups are the same, just black...

[nachetetm]

Oh wow, this is getting expensive by the minute!!
I'll try to spend less in the BB than in the crankset. Some of those BB are extremely expensive. Considering I can get a new Centaur triple BB and exchange the cups perhaps is the best option.

The idea of "transforming" the cranks into JIS doesn't seem that bad to me, as ISO BB are getting harder and harder to get. Tbh, if the spindle is not going to be asymmetric, the Centaur BB would do the same job as the JIS, but the Campy centaur is more expensive than a good JIS and as mentioned, more and more scarce.

I'll give a thought. If someone has other suggestion, they will be appreciated.

[Black Dog]

I run a record triple with the symmetrical 111mm centaur BB. The chain line was not effected in a significant way. I sort of did the opposite of you. I bought an Italian Centaur BB for a frame that broke then replaced it with a frame with a BSA BB. I Now have a new and unused Centaur BB in the parts box.

[lovebird]

I have had the same experience as Black Dog running a Campy Record triple using a symmetrical 111mm BB, it's only asymmetrical by like 2mm (at most) as far as I remember. As others have said, stick with the correct ISO taper if at all possible.

That said, if you want to go the Phil Wood route which will guarantee a perfect chainline, I've got a nice shape spindle (with bearings) in the specified 110.5mm length and correct ISO taper. I've only got BSA cups though, you'd have to find some Italian ones.

PM if you have any interest in going PW, you'd need the installation tool but I could lend you that if you wanted the spindle.

[Ralph]

Phil Wood makes a ISO 110.5 BB offset 3 MM for the asymmetrical BB the Record and Chorus triples take. It's about as good as it gets. BTW I actually think the last Centaur based triples, especially the Comp Triple ones, are equal or superior to the older Chorus and Record triples. They were designed for the symmetrical Centaur BB with a dog leg in ND side crank arm. Probably cheaper than sourcing the proper asymmetrical BB. And personally....I would never put a JIS BB in a nice campy crank. Easier to find chainrings with proper chain catcher position for the 5 arm cranks also. And I've used all of the Campy triples. Have 2 in use now.

[oliver1850]

I would look for a 1990s Athena 111 BB. They have no ledges on the cups, so you can adjust the arms to be pretty equally spaced to the centerline of the frame, even though it's a symmetrical BB. This one is the wrong thread but the Italian version looks the same.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/15477977378...UAAOSwEV5h08If

I might be able to part with one if you decide to go that route.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by nachetetm

Oh wow, this is getting expensive by the minute!!
I'll try to spend less in the BB than in the crankset. Some of those BB are extremely expensive. Considering I can get a new Centaur triple BB and exchange the cups perhaps is the best option.

The idea of "transforming" the cranks into JIS doesn't seem that bad to me, as ISO BB are getting harder and harder to get. Tbh, if the spindle is not going to be asymmetric, the Centaur BB would do the same job as the JIS, but the Campy centaur is more expensive than a good JIS and as mentioned, more and more scarce.

I'll give a thought. If someone has other suggestion, they will be appreciated.

A 111mm Centaur BB probably won't work with that Chorus(or Record) triple crank. You will have clearance issues on the drive side small ring, crank arm and frame..Why the Record/Chorus triple crank is 'asymmetric'..longer on the drive side.

[nachetetm]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

A 111mm Centaur BB probably won't work with that Chorus(or Record) triple crank. You will have clearance issues on the drive side small ring, crank arm and frame..Why the Record/Chorus triple crank is 'asymmetric'..longer on the drive side.

Should I go then for a 115mm Centaur BB?
How easy is to exchange the cups? I was trying to separate mine today, unsucessfuly. I may go that route: get a 115mm Centaur ITA bottom bracket (new) and take the right? cup to use it in my Chorus BB. If something goes wrong, I still can use the Centaur BB, I assume.

Btw, I measured the Chorus spindle, and I can't see any asymmetry. Is it internal, or are there symmetric and assymetric 111mm Chorus BBs?

Phil Wood BBs are out of consideration. Pricing is out of logic.

This is generating me a lot of doubts. although this bike will not see a lot of action, I don't want to think in the trouble of finding a replacement BB in the next years if the one I install goes wrong/worn. Chainring replacement seems a bit of a pain too. I am more and more willing to ditch the Campy crankset to get a Stronglight Impact triple: new, cheap, JIS taper, easy chainring sourcing. Not as nice looking, but definitely more practical.

[ridethecliche]

You could also post a WTB if you're not in a huge rush to see if someone has anything sitting around in a parts bin.

[Black Dog]

The 111m Centaur will very likely work just fine. I am running one with a record triple and there are two others that are running the same setup that have posted in this thread. The chain line is only effected by a few mm.

Originally Posted by nachetetm

Should I go then for a 115mm Centaur BB?
How easy is to exchange the cups? I was trying to separate mine today, unsucessfuly. I may go that route: get a 115mm Centaur ITA bottom bracket (new) and take the right? cup to use it in my Chorus BB. If something goes wrong, I still can use the Centaur BB, I assume.

Btw, I measured the Chorus spindle, and I can't see any asymmetry. Is it internal, or are there symmetric and assymetric 111mm Chorus BBs?

Phil Wood BBs are out of consideration. Pricing is out of logic.

This is generating me a lot of doubts. although this bike will not see a lot of action, I don't want to think in the trouble of finding a replacement BB in the next years if the one I install goes wrong/worn. Chainring replacement seems a bit of a pain too. I am more and more willing to ditch the Campy crankset to get a Stronglight Impact triple: new, cheap, JIS taper, easy chainring sourcing. Not as nice looking, but definitely more practical.

[bfd]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Record/Chorus triple cups are different than double(102mm) cups..But, as I mentioned, the Centaur BB cups are the same, just black...

Is this true for English cups? I have a Campy Record 111mm bb that didn’t have cups. I picked up some English-threaded cups anc they fit fine. I ended up not using the bb, so if anyone is interested in it, let me know.

Good Luck!