OT - Rivian R1T electric truck

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by jimcav

I recently read somewhere that due to the artic ice melt, there is a race to mine these precious battery metals in Greenland. Anyone know if they are doing it with less devastation to the environment?

Right now the race is to discover deposits. From there, it will take years to build out a proper greenfield mine. Cobalt and other rare earths are usually only found in extremely low percentages so a lot of earth must be moved to get a little mineral. In the copper mines of the DRC, cobalt is just a side mineral. The copper ore grade is 3-4% which is incredibly rich by any standard. The cobalt is about 0.25% and also refined with the copper waste.

This is the Glencore Mutanda mine in the DRC (copper and cobalt)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mu...6!4d25.8096099

This is what a lithium mine looks like in the Atacama Desert. This is about 55% of known world reserves.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...!4d-69.1328491

This is the dead sea for magnesium and other including potash.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/De...7!4d35.4731895


So the answer to your question is one day Greenland will look like these sites. Mining always ends one way.

[William]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Right now the race is to discover deposits. From there, it will take years to build out a proper greenfield mine. Cobalt and other rare earths are usually only found in extremely low percentages so a lot of earth must be moved to get a little mineral. In the copper mines of the DRC, cobalt is just a side mineral. The copper ore grade if 3-4% which is incredibly rich by any standard. The cobalt is about 0.25% and also refined with the copper waste.

This is the Glencore Mutanda mine in the DRC (copper and cobalt)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mu...6!4d25.8096099

This is what a lithium mine looks like in the Atacama Desert. This is about 55% of known world reserves.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...!4d-69.1328491

This is the dead sea for magnesium and other including potash.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/De...7!4d35.4731895


So the answer to your question is one day Greenland will look like these sites. Mining always ends one way.

I think at this current time, there is no free lunch no matter whether it's ICE or E-vehicles.



W.

[verticaldoug]

And the mine is just one part of the required infrastructure. You need to build a port to ship it, you need a rail line and roads. An air strip etc etc.

Check out Port Hedland which was basically developed to ship iron ore from western Australia.

https://www.google.com/maps/search/i.../data=!3m1!1e3

and then you have mines like these all over the landscape....

https://www.google.com/maps/search/i.../data=!3m1!1e3

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

Right now the race is to discover deposits. From there, it will take years to build out a proper greenfield mine. Cobalt and other rare earths are usually only found in extremely low percentages so a lot of earth must be moved to get a little mineral. In the copper mines of the DRC, cobalt is just a side mineral. The copper ore grade is 3-4% which is incredibly rich by any standard. The cobalt is about 0.25% and also refined with the copper waste.

This is the Glencore Mutanda mine in the DRC (copper and cobalt)
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mu...6!4d25.8096099

This is what a lithium mine looks like in the Atacama Desert. This is about 55% of known world reserves.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...!4d-69.1328491

This is the dead sea for magnesium and other including potash.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/De...7!4d35.4731895


So the answer to your question is one day Greenland will look like these sites. Mining always ends one way.

sad and sobering. I imagine if the motivation was there (plus $), it could be somewhat restored afterwards, at least the efforts at the Loess Plateau make me believe such things are possible.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by jimcav

sad and sobering. I imagine if the motivation was there (plus $), it could be somewhat restored afterwards, at least the efforts at the Loess Plateau make me believe such things are possible.

Read 'The King of Oil: The secret lives of Marc Rich' It talks about how to co-opt governments. That was his superpower. The Clintons, the Israeli Intelligence services..... no bridge was too far.

Both Trafigura and Glencore originated within Marc Rich and Co. It's their DNA. Both are leading commodity traders.

The Danes granted Greenland self rule in 2008. There are only 56,000 people in Greenland, when real deposits are found, money will co-opt that place in blink of an eye.

[BobbyJones]

I just don’t get it. Is mining a surprise?

Does everyone think consumer products are made of rainbow dust and unicorn farts?

It all comes from somewhere. As long as you (yes you!) want that new_____ (fill in the blank) it’s gonna happen.

[William]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

... As long as you (yes you!) want that new_____ .

A large percantage of people out there don't think much beyond the want. Where it comes from isn't even on their radar.






W.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

I just don’t get it. Is mining a surprise?

Does everyone think consumer products are made of rainbow dust and unicorn farts?

It all comes from somewhere. As long as you (yes you!) want that new_____ (fill in the blank) it’s gonna happen.

Hey, who cares, as long as the mining isn't done in my back yard...

[Matt92037]

I sat in a base model lightning a couple weeks ago. I thought it was a steal at ~$43k. For a base model it was well equipped. I remember thinking there is no way it would sticker @ ~$43k for long. Sure enough, last week Ford announced a $7k price increase. By the time those lightnings are available to the masses they will probably go up another $7k.

Any vehicle that takes batteries is seeing massive cost pressures, which most likely wont be changing anytime soon. Glad i bought a hybrid for my wife when i did.

Originally Posted by 72gmc

Walked by a brand spankin’ new F150 this morning. Will see an older, much smaller Ford Ranger next time I visit family. For me, looking forward to a time when I’ll want to replace my old truck, a new full size truck is almost impossible to justify. I know how well that little Ranger has worked for its owner. I do like the Rivian’s size for that reason.

[jimcav]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

I just don’t get it. Is mining a surprise?

Does everyone think consumer products are made of rainbow dust and unicorn farts?

It all comes from somewhere. As long as you (yes you!) want that new_____ (fill in the blank) it’s gonna happen.

I have seen the difference when we went into/from PNW to SOCAL to see areas where logging denuded the land, versus whatever the more modern process is--to my untrained eye there was a big difference. Maybe there is no good way to mine, but perhaps there are some ways worse than others, or ways to restore after completion. Not an industry I know anything about, but maybe industries were worse in the past than they are now, so I can still have some small hope

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by William

A large percantage of people out there don't think much beyond the want. Where it comes from isn't even on their radar.
W.

Yup, why most still buy 'E' anything cuz it's cool, the neighbors have one...etc, blah..Certainly isn't to save the planet. As long as fuel is easy to find, at just about any $, people will buy and drive ICS vehicles.
Yup, changing, slowly, charging times, charging places, 'E' vehicle ranges but until ala ICE 'convenience'....

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by jimcav

I have seen the difference when we went into/from PNW to SOCAL to see areas where logging denuded the land, versus whatever the more modern process is--to my untrained eye there was a big difference. Maybe there is no good way to mine, but perhaps there are some ways worse than others, or ways to restore after completion. Not an industry I know anything about, but maybe industries were worse in the past than they are now, so I can still have some small hope

The issue is about 6 billion people on the planet are poor and need more.
You have 2 billion people on the planet who don't need more, but want more. (and this more is way larger than the 6 billion more)

The 'more' is what gets us.

The timber management in North America may be better, so if you are an international company wanting lumber, go to Brazil or Borneo. It's cheaper. After we log it, we will grow Palms for palm Oil.

You want new rain gear for hiking in the PNW this fall, that piece is probably made in Vietnam where the laws regulating toxic chemical use for water proofing is non-existent. As an added bonus, when the Vietnamese company inks that next big deal with the american importer, they can celebrate with some rhinoceros horn. It's a twofer- killing the planet twice for the same money.

[zap]

edited

Originally Posted by verticaldoug

This is what a lithium mine looks like in the Atacama Desert. This is about 55% of known world reserves.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/At...!4d-69.1328491

Soon to be nationalized? If so.........

[IJWS]

https://carbuzz.com/news/ev-tires-wo...pipe-emissions

Turns out, using 6,000 lb machines to move 150-700 lbs of flesh is still not great--regardless of how they are powered. Big cars are big cars.

[verticaldoug]

Originally Posted by zap

edited



Soon to be nationalized? If so.........

https://www.google.com/maps/search/s.../data=!3m1!1e3

That's SQM which is here ....

That conversation started in 2018, and will continue probably for another 10 years. It get's solved when the Lithium is exhausted and the company get's nationalized and Chile pays billions in compensation for a now worthless asset.