Is 105 still entry level?

[RWL2222]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

And to add to that, electronic shifting systems have shorter production lives. There are already generations of electronic shifting systems for which new derailleurs are no longer available; but at the same time, for mechanical systems of the same age it is usually possible to buy new derailleurs that work with the systems. (note: the new mechanical derailleurs may not be of the same groupsets, but there is usually a derailleur of some groupset available that will work in an older mechanical system).

i want my derailleurs and everything else working well for somebody, 50 years from now

[Mark McM]

This discussion reminds me of when serious cyclists want to try out cross country skiing, and specifically they want to do skate skiing because they've heard that the skating technique is better cross training for cycling. When pricing out "entry level" skate equipment, they sometimes get sticker shock, when comparing with the price of "entry level" classical equipment. The reality is that skating is generally not where newer or more casual skiers start and most skiers don't pick up the skating technique unless they are more serious about cross country skiing. So the lowest rung of skate equipment tends to be at a higher price (and quality) level than the lowest rung of classical equipment. "Entry level" skate equipment is really more toward the mid-level of the range of skiing equipment.

Shimano 105 is similar - it may be the "entry level" of the committed cycling enthusiasts, but it is really the mid-level of the entire range of groupsets.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

This discussion reminds me of when serious cyclists want to try out cross country skiing.... "Entry level" skate equipment is really more toward the mid-level of the range of skiing equipment.

Shimano 105 is similar - it may be the "entry level" of the committed cycling enthusiasts, but it is really the mid-level of the entire range of groupsets.

This makes sense.

Futhermore, 105 has long been the 'lowest' group to share the same place in the marketing hierarchy as Ultegra and Dura Ace - ie. the same number of speeds (with exception of launch date gaps)

but generally, when Dura ace, Ultegra and 105 were, say, 11 speed.
then Tiagra was 10 speed
Sora was 9 speed
Claris was 8 speed.

However, most bikes that feature Claris, Tourney, Alfine, and other group names I'm not remembering.... those usually were out of race category bikes OEM. Touring bikes. Hybrid bikes etc.

Sora, most often, was the lowest group in the 'racing' or racing adjacent spectrum, also often because of gear ratios and cranksets coming with 53/39 and more compact cassettes. etc.

All of this still points to 105 as being mid-level, IMHO as Tiagra readily came with racing chainrings tooth counts (53/39). Racing cassettes (12-25), but just one less gear.

[RoosterCogset]

Perhaps another consideration, if anyone in the LBS business could comment? Which, if any, Shimano groupsets are actually available, distributed, and sold as a groupset (ie. the whole 7 (?) pieces as a bundled deal)? Could a consumer even go out and buy (supply chain issues notwithstanding), for example, a Sora or lower groupset (or even Tiagra for that matter)? Certainly can't really seem to find anyone selling them online (in the US anyway).

So, on reflection, maybe it's valid to ask if 105 is indeed the entry level group if you're shopping to build up your own bike?

[benb]

I guess I never thought road bikes could be considered entry level and so 105 was never entry level.

My first road bike was 105, at the time it cost 3x what my MTB cost. It was a huge purchase back then. It was almost half my gross pay for a month at the time at my first professional job out of college.

It was more like 25-50% what I made in a year at my high school and internship positions.

It goes to show how inaccessible the sport is to the young people we need in order to develop the sport. 20 something’s with a college degree who make more than low level pros are not a good place to put your starting point.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by benb

I guess I never thought road bikes could be considered entry level and so 105 was never entry level.

My first road bike was 105, at the time it cost 3x what my MTB cost. It was a huge purchase back then. It was almost half my gross pay for a month at the time at my first professional job out of college.

It was more like 25-50% what I made in a year at my high school and internship positions.

It goes to show how inaccessible the sport is to the young people we need in order to develop the sport. 20 something’s with a college degree who make more than low level pros are not a good place to put your starting point.

Plenty of older generation used bikes around that equal or better Eddy Merckx rode. Just like kids getting hand-me down cars.

[ripvanrando]

105 Entry level?

Depends on the crowd.

I would have thought Ultegra would be the bottom around here.

[Veer96]

It's about to be entry level electronic shifting

[froze]

105 was never entry level, it was always mid level, not only was it mid level the durability was high, it was considered to be the workhorse groupset, and it even found its way into a lot of amateur racing clubs because it was cost effective and not that much heavier than Ultegra or even Dura Ace.

Since then, Shimano decided to add disk brakes which made the cost go up higher, now they decided to go electronic with it which just blew the roof off the price of the components. What was once a $800 or so groupset, is now between $3,500 to $4,000!!! and that's mid level?? HUH??? Whatever, I won't be remotely considering spending that kind of money for a groupset. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Shimano is going to come out with a mechanical groupset to take the place of 105, can't wait to see the price of that, and will it be as good as the mechanical 105 of old? I think our cycling world is spinning out of control.

[Veer96]

Vintage 105 is great too. I have an 1989 sirrus and the downtube shifters feel really great. I am having a blast upgrading it to 7402 dura ace though

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by froze

Since then, Shimano decided to add disk brakes which made the cost go up higher, now they decided to go electronic with it which just blew the roof off the price of the components. What was once a $800 or so groupset, is now between $3,500 to $4,000!!! and that's mid level?? HUH???

https://www.bikeradar.com/news/shimano-105-di2-r7150/

Shimano 105 Di2 R7150, the brand’s long-awaited third-tier electronic groupset, has finally arrived. The £1,730 / $1,890 / €1,869 groupset brings more affordable electronic shifting to the Shimano road groupset line-up than ever before.

[flying]

The £1,730 / $1,890 / €1,869 groupset brings more affordable electronic shifting to the Shimano road groupset line-up than ever before.

[cgates66]

Originally Posted by mhespenheide

The new 105 is electric-only...

That's a bummer. Campag it is I guess (hope?). I do not want to charge my bicycle. No Campag crank though - that split axle design is very silly.

[mstateglfr]

Originally Posted by cgates66

That's a bummer. Campag it is I guess (hope?). I do not want to charge my bicycle. No Campag crank though - that split axle design is very silly.

https://www.microshift.com/models/sb-r512b/

11sp, hidden cables, and Shimano compatible.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by cgates66

That's a bummer. Campag it is I guess (hope?). I do not want to charge my bicycle. No Campag crank though - that split axle design is very silly.

I will assume that you do not have a crank with a hurth joint (split axle). If you did you certainly would not be calling it silly. Btw. Campy is not the only crank maker that uses the silly joint.