OT: Eviction Moratorium

[azrider]

Originally Posted by joevers

Why do landlords deserve sympathy for losing money on investment properties? Landlords falling behind on bills don't have to sleep on the street

Yeah I don't agree with this statement at all..........

Some landlords are just getting by like everyone else. Maybe instead of an "investement" those properties are putting food on their own families plates.....

[djg21]

Originally Posted by azrider

I've asked several people who I thought would've known the answer to this, but I'm still not getting a good answer. I know there are a ton of folks in here with different housing industry experience so hoping I can find answer here.

This is not an attempt to get into political debate.

That said, I'm curious about this Eviction Moratorium that is ending today. I'm not against credits or vouchers being given to tenants so they're just not out on the street, but are their any sort of credits or vouchers given to the landlords??

The federal emergency rental assistance program provides funds that states and certain localities that can be used to pay rental arrears to landlords on behalf of qualifying tenants. You can learn more here: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-iss...stance-program

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by biker72

His biggest fear is that when they do get evicted they will trash the place. It's happened to him before.

This does suck - especially since getting any work done right now is not going to be easy and it means an even tighter supply market.

But at least it's a business expense and all the impacts can be written off.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by djg21

The federal emergency rental assistance program provides funds that states and certain localities that can be used to pay rental arrears to landlords on behalf of qualifying tenants. You can learn more here: https://home.treasury.gov/policy-iss...stance-program

Everything in that link that i could find was for renters, I'm talking about emergency relief for the landlord.

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by azrider

This is the point I'm getting at. My wife and I have been toying with the idea of keeping and renting out our current "home" (not condo or apt) and buying another house. Since it's not completely paid off we'd still owe the bank each month but if we happened to get a tenant who couldn't make rent, would we be afforded the same or similar program to help with our loan payment to the bank?

Find good tenants. Keep them happy and their rate below market. You'll be fine. Unless you just bought the house, your mortgage and upkeep should be well below the market rent for your area. And the whole time you are renting it someone else is paying down your principle. But if you can't handle a month or two without the payment coming in, probably best to just sell the property and move on. This is not financial advice.

[Dead Man]

Originally Posted by azrider

Yeah I don't agree with this statement at all..........

Some landlords are just getting by like everyone else. Maybe instead of an "investement" those properties are putting food on their own families plates.....

Investment income is side-hustle income. If youve got all your eggs in that basket, you are asking for bankruptcy.. as every market correction ever has proved to millions

Its just hard to have sympathy, is all - predictably unpredicted market shifts caused your passive income to vanish, and now youre losing everything? Why didnt you keep your salaried job or at least diversify? You broke every rule in the book.... this was the likely outcome. Enjoy paying rent in the tenements you once owned.


ETA - for clarification - the above is my perception of the attitude toward landlords in financial trouble - not me razzing the OP (whose situation i dont know)

[azrider]

Originally Posted by Clean39T

Find good tenants. Keep them happy and their rate below market. You'll be fine. Unless you just bought the house, your mortgage and upkeep should be well below the market rent for your area. And the whole time you are renting it someone else is paying down your principle. But if you can't handle a month or two without the payment coming in, probably best to just sell the property and move on. This is not financial advice.

Ha.....love the disclaimer.

No I hear you on the "find good tenants" piece and all that. We've lived in the house for close to 5 years and have nice little chunk of equity but we're talking about moving to PDX actually so we can be closer to family. Moving from the desert to Portland is a MAJOR contrast in environment so instead of throwing all of our eggs in one basket we've thought "hey lets move their for a year and rent our house out while we decide if we can tolerate rain, etc".......so it's not like we trying to become rich doing this but I certainly don't want to risk getting a tenant who "can't" be evicted UNLESS I could get some sort of relief that they get.

Then again, I'm sure qualifying for one of those programs would be a hit to our credit rating in some form or fashion...............

[bostonbiker]

Originally Posted by azrider

Everything in that link that i could find was for renters, I'm talking about emergency relief for the landlord.

The Maricopa County program allows landlords to apply on behalf of tenants: https://www.maricopa.gov/5691/Emerge...tal-Assistance

State and local governments are trying to avoid double-dipping on a single property by both tenant and landlord.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by joevers

Why do landlords deserve sympathy for losing money on investment properties? Landlords falling behind on bills don't have to sleep on the street

Landlords still have to pay mortgages, taxes and maintenance costs on their rental properties (most states have laws that require landlords to provide all the usual services even if the tenant is behind in their rent). With all the expenses and obligations they had before, and no rental income coming in to pay for it, landlords very well could end up sleeping on the streets, if they can no longer make the payments on the houses they live in. Job loss and renters getting behind in rent hurts both the renters and the landlords. While the renter is often in the more dire situation, but you can't just deprive the landlord from being able to find a tenant who can pay their rent, without some relief to the landlord.

[azrider]

Originally Posted by bostonbiker

The Maricopa County program allows landlords to apply on behalf of tenants: https://www.maricopa.gov/5691/Emerge...tal-Assistance

State and local governments are trying to avoid double-dipping on a single property by both tenant and landlord.

This is exactly what I needed, thank you for sharing this.

Also answers my question: We would not qualify for Landlord assistance.

[GParkes]

Originally Posted by Dead Man

Investment income is side-hustle income. If youve got all your eggs in that basket, you are asking for bankruptcy.. as every market correction ever has proved to millions

Its just hard to have sympathy, is all - predictably unpredicted market shifts caused your passive income to vanish, and now youre losing everything? Why didnt you keep your salaried job or at least diversify? You broke every rule in the book.... this was the likely outcome. Enjoy paying rent in the tenements you once owned.


ETA - for clarification - the above is my perception of the attitude toward landlords in financial trouble - not me razzing the OP (whose situation i dont know)

I have opinions on the whole moratorium, but shall withhold. As to your remark about side hustle, eggs in one basket, etc - not true. In my 25 years of banking specializing in investment and commercial real estate lending - rental income was never to sole source of income for the borrower (unless true commercial). I've financed over a 1,000 properties. The concept is to acquire an asset that is being purchased over time by someone else (the renter), not to make money off the rent. The rental income should be ample to provide sufficient debt service and cover repairs/maintenance and taxes. if their is additional cash, then that's a bonus. Landlords deal with many unexpected situations when tenants leave, or are asked to leave - i.e. trashed properties costing thousands or more to just get inhabitable again. Not to mention the lost rent revenue. As to the moratorium, there is typically 10% vacancy rates, add on top of that non-paying tenants due to recent circumstances. One of my long time friends and a borrower during banking days has multiple tenants that never stopped working this past year, but have decided flat out not to pay him. That's legalized stealing. His properties are excellent (I'd live in anyone one of his places), so they have no complaint as to the living quarters they chose to live in prior to the pandemic. And for the record, he is an environmental engineer full time for 30+ years. Just saying your assumptions may be a bit off.

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by azrider

Ha.....love the disclaimer.

No I hear you on the "find good tenants" piece and all that. We've lived in the house for close to 5 years and have nice little chunk of equity but we're talking about moving to PDX actually so we can be closer to family. Moving from the desert to Portland is a MAJOR contrast in environment so instead of throwing all of our eggs in one basket we've thought "hey lets move their for a year and rent our house out while we decide if we can tolerate rain, etc".......so it's not like we trying to become rich doing this but I certainly don't want to risk getting a tenant who "can't" be evicted UNLESS I could get some sort of relief that they get.

Then again, I'm sure qualifying for one of those programs would be a hit to our credit rating in some form or fashion...............

Having done this a couple times in the past, having a tenant who can and wants to do minor things like unclog their own bathtub from all the hair they put down it or flip their own circuit breaker switches when it's time to turn on the AC is gold. So is having a responsive handyperson you trust for all the things your tenant isn't responsible for. Double all that if you're going to live 1200 miles away. Ultimately, I decided it was easier and more profitable to let the money sit in the market instead. YMMV.

[veloduffer]

Originally Posted by joevers

Why do landlords deserve sympathy for losing money on investment properties? Landlords falling behind on bills don't have to sleep on the street

Most commercial properties have mortgages, just like residential homes. So the loss of income from deferred rent can create a distress situation for a landlord. The elite class A type properties tend to be owned by large corporates (like a REIT or developer) with a portfolio of properties. They usually have access various sources of capital - banks, insurance companies, bonds and CMBS market. But many lower grade properties may be owned by families or small LLCs that have only 1 o 2 properties and have limited capital. These landlords can face foreclosure.

Rent relief/disbursement varies from state to state. Some states had limited to relief for landlords and others have relief for landlords and renters. Many states have only spent a fraction of the relief available and now are scrambling as the deadline has past. The states with landlord friendly laws raise the threat of homelessness for past due renters.

The flaw of the relief was the eventual repayment of back rent. Most back/late rent payment is dictated by the lease agreement. Since there is no standard form, working out repayment will be messy.

[AngryScientist]

With the red hot seller's market we are in now, i dont think it makes sense to try and rent your current home over just cashing out right now.

Being a landlord is a huge gamble, verses getting cash right now. i have no crystal ball, but your house is probably worth the most it's going to be in quite some time right now.

By the way, I do not agree with villainizing landlords who are just trying to collect rent. No one should be expected to provide goods, services or anything else in exchange for nothing. That's not fair.

[Dead Man]

Originally Posted by GParkes

I have opinions on the whole moratorium, but shall withhold. As to your remark about side hustle, eggs in one basket, etc - not true. In my 25 years of banking specializing in investment and commercial real estate lending - rental income was never to sole source of income for the borrower (unless true commercial). I've financed over a 1,000 properties. The concept is to acquire an asset that is being purchased over time by someone else (the renter), not to make money off the rent. The rental income should be ample to provide sufficient debt service and cover repairs/maintenance and taxes. if their is additional cash, then that's a bonus. Landlords deal with many unexpected situations when tenants leave, or are asked to leave - i.e. trashed properties costing thousands or more to just get inhabitable again. Not to mention the lost rent revenue. As to the moratorium, there is typically 10% vacancy rates, add on top of that non-paying tenants due to recent circumstances. One of my long time friends and a borrower during banking days has multiple tenants that never stopped working this past year, but have decided flat out not to pay him. That's legalized stealing. His properties are excellent (I'd live in anyone one of his places), so they have no complaint as to the living quarters they chose to live in prior to the pandemic. And for the record, he is an environmental engineer full time for 30+ years. Just saying your assumptions may be a bit off.

generalizations are never perfect. I know a guy who lives entirely on rent income for properties he paid cash for after the last housing crash. He lives full time in se asia, where he can live like a king on this investment income ... hes currently only getting rent from about half of his properties and its putting the strain on him, having no other income source... i wish the best for him, but the summarized response to that is what i wrote above.

I realize everyone has a different situation, and im not vilifying landlords for this alone (though many can be vilified for a lot of other stuff... different topic). And im all for some kind of assistance to landlords who cant pay their notes because their renters arent paying rent.

But when someone asks why a large portion of our society is unsympathetic to this great landlord outcry, my first post is the answer.

Thats aaaalllll im sayin.