Ti v. Carbon

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Poertner did something better - he did blind testing with groups of experienced (you might even say "expert") cyclists. Here's a quote Poetner from an article on the SlowTwitch web site called "Thoughts on Science and Perception":



Reports from other blind tests have shown riders have similar difficulties distinguishing between different frames in blind test, even when "everybody knows they should feel different."

This is reality. The data does not lie or care about the mirad of cognitive and perceptual biases that plague us all. Humans are simply poorly equipped to perceive much of what is really going on in reality. We are hamstrung by our own brain and the models it constructs to try and make sense of sensory input that is limited and incomplete. Ask a dog what the world smells like and compare that to what you think the world smells like.

[DarkStar]

As others have said, try lowering your tire pressure; I run 35mm Continental Speed Kings on my gravel bike, 40psi F/R on the road, 35/30 off-road. Weight in at 215lbs, bike does not feel at all sluggish, could probably drop the pressure another couple of pounds without negatively affecting the ride quality.

[froze]

I haven't rode every single bike made in the world, but the ones I did ride I ended up buying a TI bike because I found out that CF bikes do mute minor road vibrations a tiny bit better than TI, but when you hit something larger, like large road cracks or off road on gravel I found the TI to be noticeably better, so overall I liked TI...but of course that is my opinion and it ain't worth spit!

My recommendations are based on always doing the cheapest thing first and slowly work your way up till you reach the point where your satisfied. Do note, you are riding a bicycle, you can't remove all the vibration.

So if you're trying to mute vibration on your current bike the cheapest place, and actually the best place to start is with your tires and tire pressure, not the fork, I don't care what that chart says. Not sure what size tires you have nor your body and bike weight but most people tend to run their tires psi over what they should be thinking they are going to go faster when the fact is they will actually go slower unless the road is not a road but their riding on a Velodrome track! So you need to find out your ideal tire pressure and adjust from there. The next thing is tire size, the larger the tire you use the less PSI it will require, all of which equals a better ride. Cars, some car owners are getting custom wheels so they can fit on tires with almost no sidewall, if you've ever been in one of those cars the ride is rougher than a normal car because the larger the larger the sidewall is the more vibration and shock it can absorb, but your handling in highspeed stuff is compromised more as the sidewall gets larger...tradeoffs.

Next go to a gel handlebar tape such as Shocktape, this stuff is so good it's used in all sorts of other sports not just cycling, for example it's used on baseball bats and hammers! Then wrap over that with some natural cork handlebar tape. The Shocktape applies to the top surfaces of the handlebar, it has tape on the bottom side so it will stick to the bar, then apply the handlebar tape as you would normally. Of course if someday you remove the stuff the Shocktape will leave behind a residue, as tape will do, so you can either clean it off or simply cover it up with handlebar tape.

Now the next two things you can do if the tire stuff nor the Shocktape works to your satisfaction but you want more then consider a suspension seatpost and a suspension stem, again notice the fork is missing here? That fork is going to vibrate right up into the stem and into the bars, this is why you feel vibration in the bars...duh! So you need to isolate the fork. Think of it as a car, the car has a frame, if you rode a car that was welded directly to the frame you would be in for one rough ride, this is why cars have springs and shocks and isolation mounts to prevent most of that, same is true with the fork and frame of a bike, you need to isolate those items from vibration so it doesn't get to you. Big trucks ride so rough even with all that stuff cars have they have to use a suspension seat, so you should gleam from that. There are various seatpost suspension units, I haven't tried them so not sure which is the best but I've heard from the internet that the SR Suntour Parallelogram design seems to be the best, but again read up on that stuff. Combine that with a Redshift Sports Suspension Stem and you got most of whatever you don't like gone.

If you're still not quite happy get a magic carpet...just kidding, but the next two items will have minor effect on muting vibs but will cost a lot more than the other stuff I've mentioned so far, so your return on the dollar will be less...a lot less. That is get a CF fork and a TI rail seat.

Remember, don't go by charts, think how cars work at dampening shock and vibration, they don't use CF frames, in fact the Alfa Romeo 4C uses a carbon fiber frame, and people do complain about the rough ride it has, so CF is not the angel against vibration, the magic carpet is the angel against vibration!!

[mj_michigan]

This is somewhat orthogonal to the OP's question, but is related to the general question of vibration damping. I found the front end of my Lynskey R255 to be noticeably harsher on sections of cobblestone-like broken pavement near my home than my other (steel) bikes. So I decided to do some experiments. I kept swapping tires and wheels between the Lynskey and a Serotta Atlanta. My findings are that R255 behaves noticeably nicer with an Open Pro wheel and Compass (26mm) tire than with a Campy Khamsin wheel and the Compass tire or a Rubino Pro 25mm. I noticed little difference between wheels/tires on the Atlanta -- all combinations felt fine. BTW, I noticed no issues with the rear end.

Since my findings are subjective, keep in mind that this could all be in my head.

[vincenz]

Originally Posted by Dromen

Searched Forum, found nothing....



Always looking for ways to improve road vibration on my all Ti gravel bike. ALL = frame/seat post/stem. Run 42mm tubeless tires at 40ish psi on Belgium+ 32 spoke disc wheels when off pavement. Fork is Enve CX. Bars are currently Easton EA70 AX. Will any CF pieces reduce road noise however slight considering the above set up?



FYI - also spend considerable miles with 35c smooth tubed road tires(50psi) on pavement rides.



Begs question kicking around in my head for years. Does Ti have similar vibration damping characteristics as CF?

I’ve ridden modern carbon and modern ti and to me, all things being equal, ti has the better ride quality and is more compliant, especially in the rear. The difference in the front is less pronounced, but ti has a slight advantage as well. For short rides on smooth tarmac, the advantage isn’t as big, but once you start doing longer rides on uneven roads, you will notice the difference with a good ti bike.

For improving vibration, I would look into either carbon or ti seat posts, especially in 27.2 mm diameter, even if you have to shim it. Also look into a saddle with ti rails and a nylon base. Stay away from carbon base and carbon rail saddles. While light, they are also stiff and you will lose compliance there. For the front, other than throwing a steel fork on there, I don’t think you can really play with any components to give any noticeable compliance. I don’t believe in the whole carbon stem and carbon handlebar thing, and I’m against putting pads under your bar tape.