Campagnolo: what do you want them to do?

[klasse]

How about barend shifters and BRS style aero levers for a 7sp?

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

Campagnolo should just keep doing what they have been doing/or striving to do for the last nearly 100 years - making the best road racing componentry available.

What would I personally like to see?

I'd like to see more clear 'tiers' in the wheels/but maybe less variety all tubeless compatible. 2 price points, same concept, best they can make em - alu/carbon rim/disc. For example. I think they are kinda doing this.

A Carbon Bora. And an Aluminum Bora ( could be by another name)... like 40ish mm
A Carbon Shamal. An Aluminum Shamal. ... 35ish mm
A Carbon Zonda. An Aluminum Zonda. ...30ish mm
A Carbon Hyperon. An Aluminum Hyperon... 25ish mm

And then a few of your tubular, specific use wheels can be seperate for track, TT etc.

In components. Maybe the same. Disc and Rim. 4 Tiers maybe just 3. Make them the same - An "Ultra" Torque mechanical option. A Wireless option. Divided by material - Carbon/Ti. Carbon/Alu. All Aluminum. more or less.

Obviously, there are holes in those, but the sensible solution.

With Disc/Rim, wireless/mechanical we don't need so much variety/tiers... just clear ones.

Maybe it's just Record (Elite). Chorus (Mid). Centaur (Entry).

They make a carbon Shamal.... Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon

https://www.fulcrumwheels.com/it/ruo...ng-zero-carbon

[DfCas]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Do ya'll assemble your own bikes? If not, what does wireless do, what question does it answer, what problem does it 'solve'..

And no whining about shimano being wire-less, not wireless..but shimano gets a pass...but Campagnolo, never...

These threads and such come about about every year or so. "OMG, 12s from Campagnolo is 4 YEARS OLD, and EKAR is 2 YEARS OLD!!"...

12s from shimano FINALLY was introduced and I doubt anybody has actually bought or even seen it. sram saw Campag do it and they also came out with 12s..The same happened with...9s and 10s and 11s..with the 2 's' makers.

"Campagnolo was late to the disc brake market"...but no 'shimano is late to the 12s market'...

And the article AGAIN mentions that OE is the solution to all Campagnolo's 'ills'...and then lament the number of pro teams that are sponsored by Campagnolo(sram went from 3 to one, BTW)...

Just like Rolex doesn't make an electronic watch 'for the masses', and neither does Porsche or Maserati or...blah...Campagnolo isn't Toyota, it's a 'premium brand'...

I see the SAME thing every year about this time because of a BIG 'show' in Vegas...and the same maker, who outfits something like 60% of the police forces and military worldwide gets slammed because they don't follow the 'herd' and introduce some silly 'thing' that will be forgotten in 3 months. Kinda like the 'gotta do OE' mantra.

Like Rapha, this maker..rhymes with 'lock', gets hammered, every year..gets tiresome.

So, what's Campagnolo gonna do?

Make great mechanical rim and disc brake 'stuff'.
Will continue to make some of the best wheelsouttaboxes there are.
Centaur will become 12s and 'maybe' a 2 by 13s group..road and Groad.

And continue to sell everything they make.. Just like G____.

Out

PS, yup, I'm an admitted and long time Campagnolo and 'G____ fan boy...

Yes, I do assemble my own bikes . But the questions about what problem does it solve etc also apply to wired electronic. Wireless does clean up the frame a bit by reducing the number of stops/holes/ etc.
I dont own any electronic bikes but if I ever do it will be wireless.

[C40_guy]

Originally Posted by deluz

I love the look of Skeleton brakes but can't use them with Shimano or SRAM because of lack of QR on the brakes. I think they took the wrong path on this one by putting the QR on the levers.

Been doing that for a while. The Nuovo Record brakes I put on my Atala in '72 had caliper mounted QR levers...

Don't know how they do it with Delta, or with the mountain or cantilever brakes...but I don't think I've *ever* seen a QR on a Campy lever...

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by Velocipede

They make a carbon Shamal.... Fulcrum Racing Zero Carbon

https://www.fulcrumwheels.com/it/ruo...ng-zero-carbon

They already make a Carbon Shamal. The fulcrum and campy are different, but I don't want to have to go to Fulcrum to get the "better" wheels in some respects. I want that from Campagnolo.

My list was to explain how I'd like to see the tiers. Not things they necessarily do or don't have. Maybe this is an issue? They don't want to compete directly with sister-brand Fulcrum? But I think that could create problems for both brands TBH.

I think its obvious they are moving the direction I am saying. They only have tiered families now - Bora, Bora, Bora, Shamal, Scirocco, Zonda, and Calima, but it's a bit messed up still IMHO... still some holes, and some overlap.

Like, if I want to spend 500-800 euros and get a lightweight, deeper profile aluminum rim wheelset - like a better Scirocco. Campy has nothing for me, I have to get a Fulcrum set. I Love Zondas. I have Zondas... but in today's market, those are low profile, not medium. Campy's wheel pricing goes: 200€, 400€, 500€, 1200€+. There is a BIG difference between 500€ and 1200€

EDIT: From above. Maybe this is what I would REALLY like to see (although it'd never happen). That Campagnolo continues as Elite competition road and track...they stay the course. And Fulcrum moves to focus on Gravel and build a presence in Cyclocross, including bringing back components for Fulcrum... but focused on Gravel/Endurance and 'cross.... no Elite Road, no Elite Track. And wheels follow suit. That would allow more cross pollination, without confusion/competition.

[klasse]

Has anyone mentioned 13 speed? Maybe a 1x13 is next? I feel it.

[rain dogs]

Originally Posted by klasse

Has anyone mentioned 13 speed? Maybe a 1x13 is next? I feel it.

Ekar?

[saab2000]

Some people take this far too seriously!

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by rain dogs

They already make a Carbon Shamal. The fulcrum and campy are different, but I don't want to have to go to Fulcrum to get the "better" wheels in some respects. I want that from Campagnolo.

My list was to explain how I'd like to see the tiers. Not things they necessarily do or don't have. Maybe this is an issue? They don't want to compete directly with sister-brand Fulcrum? But I think that could create problems for both brands TBH.

I think its obvious they are moving the direction I am saying. They only have tiered families now - Bora, Bora, Bora, Shamal, Scirocco, Zonda, and Calima, but it's a bit messed up still IMHO... still some holes, and some overlap.

Like, if I want to spend 500-800 euros and get a lightweight, deeper profile aluminum rim wheelset - like a better Scirocco. Campy has nothing for me, I have to get a Fulcrum set. I Love Zondas. I have Zondas... but in today's market, those are low profile, not medium. Campy's wheel pricing goes: 200€, 400€, 500€, 1200€+. There is a BIG difference between 500€ and 1200€

EDIT: From above. Maybe this is what I would REALLY like to see (although it'd never happen). That Campagnolo continues as Elite competition road and track...they stay the course. And Fulcrum moves to focus on Gravel and build a presence in Cyclocross, including bringing back components for Fulcrum... but focused on Gravel/Endurance and 'cross.... no Elite Road, no Elite Track. And wheels follow suit. That would allow more cross pollination, without confusion/competition.

Fulcrum and Campagnolo aren't different, they are a sub-brand of Campagnolo made in the same factory by the same people and offer the same features. Yes, the Fulcrum brand does have more wheel offerings. But that's because people who buy Fulcrum do so because they offer more freehub body choices, which is something they were created to do.

Fulcrum was originally created JUST for Shimano/SRAM builds. And Campagnolo wheels for Campagnolo builds. Same reason Shimano has PRO and SRAM has Zipp. Not everyone who has Campagnolo is going to want a Shimano branded bar, stem or seatpost. But they'll happily use a PRO branded one.

Fulcrum make great offerings, many more than Campy because that's what people have asked for or used with the other brands like Shimano and SRAM. So Campy isn't going to do it. They don't get the call for it. It's the same reason they only make 1 EPS group now, Super Record. Their internal sales data shows that there were more sales of SR EPS than Chorus and Record EPS combined. SO they stopped offering the other two. NOW, I find that odd, but that's me. And yes, I've told them so. But they won't listen to me. They have a plan for the Campagnolo brand that works and they are sticking to it. Just as they have a plan for their wheels and groups and why they won't do a high-end alloy kit or a silver kit, cause they don't want to.

Mr. C get royally pissed and has threatened to sue over people (Us specifically) for taking Potenza, stripping it, polishing it and panto it. He hates it. He doesn't understand why people want to look backwards. He threatened to sue because he thought we were given the groups for free and we shouldn't be allowed to modify it given that fact. But we weren't given it, we bought it like everyone else. So when he found out that it helped but he also thought it diminished from the Campagnolo brand. Fortunately it didn't and doesn't. And CNA pointed out all the threads where there were zero negative comments, only positive comments and Italy calmed down after that.

Campy has a plan and they stick to it. And no the company is not going anywhere. These and the other threads usually devolve into those comments too.... if Campy doesn't do X, they will be sold, blah, blah, blah. That's not going to happen. It's a family owned company in a trust. It's not getting sold. The family wouldn't allow it. They will never let a Non-Campagnolo family or business own it.

[Elefantino]

How many of us ride only Campagnolo because it is Campagnolo, or because it is better than Shimano/SRAM/etc.?

Or is there a difference?

[fredd]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

How many of us ride only Campagnolo because it is Campagnolo, or because it is better than Shimano/SRAM/etc.?

Or is there a difference?

Personally I’m on campy cause I got tired of sram’s poor front shifting, and am not a fan of shimano’s shift paddle setup.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by Elefantino

How many of us ride only Campagnolo because it is Campagnolo, or because it is better than Shimano/SRAM/etc.?

Or is there a difference?

I ride it cause I like the shape of the levers and I like they have replacement parts and it's not a throwaway item. I would rather rebuild/reuse something than throw it away.

AND this year is a perfect example of that. I had a customer come in with a broken Shimano crankset (thanksshimano IG has pics). I had to wait 5 months for them to send me a warranty one. When a couple of PLF Members had a broken front derailleur, Campy sent them the parts directly with me facilitating things (you know who you are ;-) Campy keeps warranty parts separate from sellable stock, Shimano and SRAM do not. Yes, they are a much smaller company, but still. And yes, I know the little tabs shouldn't have broken so there's that. But they've now fixed it and I found an even better fix for it so there's that. And it's all cause I can replace parts on Campy products.

People complain about Campy being late to the party for different things, Disc brakes is one. They had been working on it for awhile. But Mr. C and the rest of the designers had specific things they wanted and it took time to make it happen. But it worked. One was the shape of the levers. They are only 11% larger than standard levers. Shimano is 30 and SRAM is 35%. They wanted the parts to be replaceable, they are. In the lever and caliper there are only 4 parts each. And they are interchangeable between them (frt and rear calipers / left and right levers).

The story goes Mr. C and others were riding bikes on the Canary Islands testing out different parts, one of which was the rotors. Some bikes had 6-Bolt, some had Centerlock style. Mr. C was riding down the hill and the rotors were chattering and he stopped at the bottom and called over the engineers to ask why. They told him It was due to the design, 6-Bolt. He asked why their bikes weren't making noise, they told him they had CEnterlock on their bikes. At that moment Mr. C said Centerlock only, agreed to pay Shimano the fee needed and that's why Campagnolo uses Centerlock style rotors vs 6-Bolt.

That kind of story makes me realize they care about the end user. Same with the others, interchangeability, repairability and the others. Yes, they are picky, but they have to be, it's their families name on the parts and it's huge name to live up to.

Honestly, I'm kind of surprised Mr. S hasn't said something internally about all the broken cranks. And if he has, my bet is they gave him a sheet with cost numbers that shows it's cheaper to keep them in the world and just replace them than to retool and redesign them.

[Velocipede]

Originally Posted by fredd

Personally I’m on campy cause I got tired of sram’s poor front shifting, and am not a fan of shimano’s shift paddle setup.

If it was a Red front derailleur, that makes sense. Many pro teams started to switch to Force and Rival front derailleurs for bikes cause the Red front derailleur was so flexible that they didn't want to worry about shifting issues. They used to take Sharpie's and color over the graphics so press wouldn't snoop. But it was a known secret. That's one reason I am not a fan of SRAM.

[herb5998]

Well said on the repair side @velocipede. My first go fast road bike had early SRAM force, The ratchet in the shifter broke, and the solution from SRAM was just to replace the entire assembly. After that I switched to Campagnolo (the one lever per action works great for me) and haven’t really looked to use anything else.


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[bigbill]

I went campy in the late 90s. I was still riding Dura Ace 8 didn't like the Shimano 9 setup, so I went 9 with campy. During a deployment in 2003, I picked up the Record parts to make my bike 10 speed. In December of 2008, I upped to 11 speed. By 2012, I had three 11 speed bikes. I stuck with campy because I had the tools and knowledge to work on my bikes. Shimano and Campy didn't really line up until 11 speed. My Boyd carbon wheels have a campy freehub with a 12-27 Chorus cassette that works flawlessly with my Ultegra equipped Lynskey. My trainer setup has Chorus 11 with a 105 11-28 cassette and Ultegra chain. It all works great.

My current plan is to buy a few campy cassettes and stash them away so I can continue to use my wheels. I have no plans to upgrade to 12 with campy. My next bike will probably be a Pursuit with clearance for 30s, disc, and electronic shifting. I don't want wires and I'm assuming they're all wireless by then.