OT:Mom becomes fastest American woman to run a marathon

[duff_duffy]

No way…Lance would have claimed he had given birth 3 times if this were the case

Originally Posted by Spoker

There are several instances where Olympic level speed skaters came back stronger after childbirth. Hormonal effects were suggested.

[notlance]

In 1984, Carlos Lopes became Olympic Marathon champion at 37 against a stellar field of competitors, defeating all the big players of the day. Prior to 1982, Lopes was a 10k and XC specialist. I believe longevity and high performance at 35+ has to do with how much miles are in your legs. Lopes came to the marathon distance late in his development, just like Kipchoge, who was a world champion at 5k at age 18. I don't think we'll ever see a super high performing marathon runner in his/her early twenties continuing at the same level into the 35+ range. The Mom may be 37 but her legs are not jaded.

[deluz]

Not to diminish this accomplish which is indeed an amazing feat.
But I believe that athletic performance especially at the elite level is influenced greatly by genetic makeup. There are probably many other women in just as good condition and have trained as hard or harder but fail to perform at the same level. When I was in high school around 1975 I was on the cross country and track teams. Despite training as hard as I could and desire to run as fast as possible I was rarely on the varsity squad as there were others who were simply faster without trying as hard. I could run a mile in 4:45 but many more on the team could run it faster so I rarely was allowed to run the mile at a meet. There was one runner in particular who was far beyond everyone else and it was clear by watching him run that he was a natural at it. He ended up setting the world record in the half marathon which just boggles my mind. Our team won the regional championship every year so that also explains why I had such fierce competition.

[BobbyJones]

Nice time, Nice story.

But still 5ish minutes off from WR time.

As competitive we are as a culture, you'd think we could do better.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by deluz

Not to diminish this accomplish which is indeed an amazing feat.
But I believe that athletic performance especially at the elite level is influenced greatly by genetic makeup.

This is of course true. If you took a random sampling of any large population, you'll find significant differences in raw athletic talent, and differences in how well people respond to training. But at the pointy end of athletics, the 1% of the 1%, they all have have genetics for maximum performance - they do not represent the same variation in genetic limitations as you might see across the rest of the population. The best of the best are separated by just a fraction of a percent in genetic capabilities. Here, every little thing matters, and training just a little better, or just wanting it a little more, can make the difference between 1st and 2nd. In this particular case, the record was broke by just a tiny bit - about 0.25%. So its possible that the new record holder and the previous record holder had nearly equal genetic capability, but the new record holder was able to bring together all the little details on that particular day just a little bit better.

[Tony T]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

i agree completely. woman comes back to the sport after having 2 kids and being a mom and breaks the us record, amazing accomplishment.

Joke warning…..

“If clean, it's the greatest comeback. And if not, then it's the greatest fraud,"

[jlwdm]

We make to big of a deal with sports records. Old and new records can’t be compared.

This year a zillion NFL season records because the season had 17 games for the first time. The players pre 1978 have no chance as the season was 14 games.

Golf and tennis equipment have made the games easier. Training equipment and training programs have improved dramatically.

I have to say this marathon time is very unimpressive. There was an extensive article in Sports Illustrated (20 years ago?) that stated that as more women got into distance running, based on physiology, women would be running faster marathons than men.

Jeff

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by jlwdm

I have to say this marathon time is very unimpressive. There was an extensive article in Sports Illustrated (20 years ago?) that stated that as more women got into distance running, based on physiology, women would be running faster marathons than men.

I remember those articles, and they were as bogus then as they are today. The conclusion that women would be running faster than men was based on the rate of improvements in running speed. Women's marathon times were dropping faster then men's so if you extrapolated the rate of improvements out, then at some point women would be faster then men. But this assumption failed to appreciate that for any new activity, improvements happen rapidly at first, and then the rate of improvement slows as performance reaches an asymptotic limit.

Here's a graph of marathon record times,




Women's marathon times only started to be recorded around 1970, and improvements were at first quite rapid. If you were too have looked at this graph in 1985, and assumed that the improvement in the women's record would continue at the same rate, you might assume that women would be faster than men by the turn of the century. But of course that didn't happen, as the women's record approached the asymptote.

[marciero]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I remember those articles, and they were as bogus then as they are today. The conclusion that women would be running faster than men was based on the rate of improvements in running speed. Women's marathon times were dropping faster then men's so if you extrapolated the rate of improvements out, then at some point women would be faster then men. But this assumption failed to appreciate that for any new activity, improvements happen rapidly at first, and then the rate of improvement slows as performance reaches an asymptotic limit.

While it is always a bad idea to extrapolate beyond range of the data (with the exception of some specialized models), to be fair, I think that some of those arguments may have been based at least in part on physiology, as jlwdm suggests, which seems at least plausible, even if it didnt pan out. Marathon is sort of a borderline event, but for ultra events, the gender gap does appear to be shaping up differently with narrower and still decreasing gaps. That seems to be the reporting anyway. Similarly with respect to the age gap.

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by marciero

While it is always a bad idea to extrapolate beyond range of the data (with the exception of some specialized models), to be fair, I think that some of those arguments may have been based at least in part on physiology, as jlwdm suggests, which seems at least plausible, even if it didnt pan out. ....

I'm not getting the "based on physiology" part.

I haven't done the research, but given the same parameters I can't think of one sport that requires strength or endurance where women "perform" better than men. Not then, not now.

I would've liked to have seen the science that came to that conclusion.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by BobbyJones

I haven't done the research, but given the same parameters I can't think of one sport that requires strength or endurance where women "perform" better than men. Not then, not now.

Women are faster than men in open-water ultra-distance swimming.

[BobbyJones]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

Women are faster than men in open-water ultra-distance swimming.

A ha! I stand corrected.

Note my qualifier of "given the same parameters".

From 2 minutes of internet research (which makes me an expert) I see that these times are based on solo events, and not exactly in still water.

I wonder how these comparisons would hold up under head to head competition

As an interesting note on women's marathon world records- There are two formal records: Womens Only & Mixed Gender

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by marciero

While it is always a bad idea to extrapolate beyond range of the data (with the exception of some specialized models), to be fair, I think that some of those arguments may have been based at least in part on physiology, as jlwdm suggests, which seems at least plausible, even if it didnt pan out. Marathon is sort of a borderline event, but for ultra events, the gender gap does appear to be shaping up differently with narrower and still decreasing gaps. That seems to be the reporting anyway. Similarly with respect to the age gap.

While many people think of the Marathon as a pure "endurance" event, it's really not. Aerobic capacity and threshold are still the main factors in performance. Men continue to dominate records that are based on strength and power, but women can compete on a more equal footing in events where endurance and fortitude are more important than strength and power. Ultra-endurance running and long distance swimming have been mentioned, but also on the list are things like round-the-world sailing and dog sled racing.

Besides which, the new record being discussed here isn't even for the Marathon. "Mom's" new record is for the half-Marathon.

[jlwdm]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

While many people think of the Marathon as a pure "endurance" event, it's really not. Aerobic capacity and threshold are still the main factors in performance. Men continue to dominate records that are based on strength and power, but women can compete on a more equal footing in events where endurance and fortitude are more important than strength and power. Ultra-endurance running and long distance swimming have been mentioned, but also on the list are things like round-the-world sailing and dog sled racing.

Besides which, the new record being discussed here isn't even for the Marathon. "Mom's" new record is for the half-Marathon.

Ha. That would be a really slow half-marathon.

Jeff

[mhespenheide]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Besides which, the new record being discussed here isn't even for the Marathon. "Mom's" new record is for the half-Marathon.

Two records were broken in Houston:
Sara Hall (38) set the American record for the half-marathon in 1:07:15
Keira D'Amato (37) set the American record for the marathon in 2:!9:12

Sara Hall, by the way, is a mother of four.


But we've been talking about Keira D'Amato's record. Possibly because Sara Hall has had a lengthy career with a number of professional highlights along the way, while Keira D'Amato stepped away from competition at the highest level after collegiate success and has only stepped (back) up to the top echelon in the last year or two. Comparatively speaking, she's kind of come out of nowhere.