OT: for sale by owner house

[Tickdoc]

Well, agreed upon price, owner said they would like to share attorney.

I engaged an attorney to draw contract and started title search, abstract search, etc.

Reached out to seller to let them know ball is rolling. I was getting ready to send them the estimate for all fees when the seller asked for my email to send me something.

I get his email tonight and he has upped the price $130k.

He Apparently had an auction/estate person in and they engaged a broker who did a cma of the property and decided it would list for way more than we agreed on.

***?

I’ve already engaged the attorney and now I’ll be on the hook for his fees, or at least what they have done so far.

Is it within my rights to expect the seller pay half or all of what I am to owe this attorney based on a verbal agreement of price?

People suck.

[SlowPokePete]

Yikes...

SPP

[C40_guy]

Now the selling starts.

You get to sell the seller on why they should sell you the house at the original/agreed price, or something close to it.

Some money now is better than a bit more money later, with a less reliable buyer, etc.

It's not over...keep fighting for the property if you want it...

Oh, and never split an attorney. If you hire an attorney, you want them to be watching out for *your* interests. Interests follow the money. If the money is split, who should the attorney protect...it's unclear...

[Ken Robb]

Originally Posted by yngpunk

i'd get an attorney to write up and/or review a sale contract so you can "lock" in your deal and agree on terms and potentially ward off other offers and cold feet on sellers part. No need to start spending on other services until you get a signed contract, which should be your first priority.

amen!

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by C40_guy

Now the selling starts.

You get to sell the seller on why they should sell you the house at the original/agreed price, or something close to it.

Some money now is better than a bit more money later, with a less reliable buyer, etc.

It's not over...keep fighting for the property if you want it...

Oh, and never split an attorney. If you hire an attorney, you want them to be watching out for *your* interests. Interests follow the money. If the money is split, who should the attorney protect...it's unclear...

Well, to be clear, the attorney represents me only, and they are to reimburse me for half his fees. Sharing was at their request.

Problem is, we have a lot of work to do on this property for it to be what we want.

I factored that into the negotiated price, but not a lot extra.

I’m in no mood to negotiate past an already negotiated price. That is in low form and not how you do business.

[duff_duffy]

Sorry to hear deal fell through (as of now at least)….just a thought based on limited info so ignore if does not apply:
- you mentioned this person was patient of yours. Were they in position to offer house for sale without any “pressure” from this relationship? Original offer to you may have been made under pressure, when they took step back to get impartial assessment maybe they felt taken advantage of when they got an assessment done.

My grandparents once sold a “for sale by owner” house for way way way under market value in similar situation. When they shared house was sold my family was furious at buyer, felt they took advantage of grandparents (they were older, memory issues, health issues coupled with fierce independent streak where they were going to do things their way!). Long story but they got hosed, I wish they would have gotten honest assessment of house. From the buyer side they probably just looked at it as a great deal.

Anyway, probably don’t know enough to help other than to say ask yourself if the assessment they got is fair. If so, then start negotiating if you want it. You are on own for legal fees though in my opinion.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by duff_duffy

Sorry to hear deal fell through (as of now at least)….just a thought based on limited info so ignore if does not apply:
- you mentioned this person was patient of yours. Were they in position to offer house for sale without any “pressure” from this relationship? Original offer to you may have been made under pressure, when they took step back to get impartial assessment maybe they felt taken advantage of when they got an assessment done.

My grandparents once sold a “for sale by owner” house for way way way under market value in similar situation. When they shared house was sold my family was furious at buyer, felt they took advantage of grandparents (they were older, memory issues, health issues coupled with fierce independent streak where they were going to do things their way!). Long story but they got hosed, I wish they would have gotten honest assessment of house. From the buyer side they probably just looked at it as a great deal.

Anyway, probably don’t know enough to help other than to say ask yourself if the assessment they got is fair. If so, then start negotiating if you want it. You are on own for legal fees though in my opinion.

Older than me but of sound mind and body for sure. I negotiated to the agreed upon price after they said we want x. I offered less, they countered a little and I accepted.

They are moving after the sale to be closer to grandkids so no real skin in the game between us once they sell.

[Louis]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

I get his email tonight and he has upped the price $130k.

This is why when it comes to important financial deals you absolutely can't rely on verbal "gentlepersons' agreements." Everything has to be spelled out in writing, signed, sealed, etc.

Good luck coming to a fair (for both sides) conclusion. If it turns out that they aren't reasonable be sure you're willing to walk away. I can assure you that no matter how much you're in love with this place, there will be other options that are just as attractive.

[Tickdoc]

Originally Posted by Louis

This is why when it comes to important financial deals you absolutely can't rely on verbal "gentlepersons' agreements." Everything has to be spelled out in writing, signed, sealed, etc.

Good luck coming to a fair (for both sides) conclusion. If it turns out that they aren't reasonable be sure you're willing to walk away. I can assure you that no matter how much you're in love with this place, there will be other options that are just as attractive.

Oh I think we’ve already walked.

Im just trying to decide how best to respond.

[tctyres]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Oh I think we’ve already walked.

Im just trying to decide how best to respond.

Yeah, then I would just respond with a quick thanks but no thanks and leave the door open to the agreed price. I'm sure the temptation to send a barbed response is strong, but I'd avoid that. It's possible that the selling husband and wife disagree. One of them might want to sell it at your price, and that person might win in 3 months as the house sits into April. Dunno.

They already are renegotiating the house deal, so I bet they would renegotiate the lawyer cost at this point.

It's easy to get steamed about this, but don't sweat it. Something else will come along that will work.

[mjb266]

No harm in a courteous response even if you’re disappointed. Something that expresses your love for the place, a tight budget, and an “I understand” might pay dividends down the road.

And if it were me…$130k is a ton of money. It’s enough to make you walk away from the deal, and it’s enough for them to walk away as well. At the end of the day, this is business.

That doesn’t mean they won’t counter a polite decline on your part with a $50k increase

[Polyglot]

The broker who came in is absolutely an interested party with bias, as if the seller does not sell to you they as a broker know that the greatest likelihood is that they will get the listing. Their estimate is therefore more than likely going to be higher than the true value that can be achieved and would incorporate a standard realtor's commission. For a broker to promise a higher price to be able to get a listing is often standard fare. When the property then later does not sell quickly or at all, the broker simply says: "duh, I don't know, the market must have shifted, well now you only have to drop the price $100K and we can sell it." That is what recently happened to my mother. She spoke to three potential realtors that were all within the top 10% locally for total sales. Two came in with the same valuation and the third came in with a price that was 10% higher. But it wasn't only that he offered the higher valuation, he also showed all kind of other data showing why he could reach the price he suggested. In the best market ever locally, he was not able to even get people to visit the place in the first two months during prime real estate months over the summer, until my sister and I got all over his back and made him change the listing and the photos. Within days, showings started and after a month an offer that was perfectly in line with the estimates given by the other realtors was proferred. Upon the realtor's suggestion, the conditional offer was accepted. The conditions were to be removed within 45 days and we were speaking to the "buyers" as late as the 44th day about them also buying much of the furniture. On the last possible day, the "buyers" backed out. A week later a second "sale" was concluded with another buyer for more money (the market as a whole had gone up by more than 5% between the first contact with the relators and when the house finally closed. So anything promised by a realtor who can benefit from a sale is highly suspect.

[prototoast]

I'm curious where the old price or the price +$130k falls in relation to neutral third party estimates such as those by Zillow or redfin. Those are obviously imperfect, but do give a good starting point. That could make it more clear whether the seller is legitimately rethinking selling for a price that's too low, or weather the broker is just trying to gin up a commission.

[Tickdoc]

Still waiting to respond. I want to call my attorney today first before responding and let him know things are on hold.

Seller did state that the comparative market analysis price was inflated and that if we are still interested they would reduce the sales price to reflect no broker fees, it that all closing costs would be paid by us and that a much higher earnest money payment would be necessary to secure the deal.

It equated to a $90k increase in the overall deal.

Since the house is not what we want without a minimum of another $200k in renovation costs(or higher in today’s market) I am feeling much better about walking. His offer was very “in light of recent events” take it or leave it which makes me want to leave it even more.

It is a unique property and may sell higher than what we offered, but after looking for so long now, I can also see it sitting for some time due to it’s “as is” condition. The house next door ( too large in both house and land) to this one has been listed for more than a year now due to its overpricing. I know the owner of that one and I know she is in no rush to sell. This one is a bargain in comparison, but comparably less grand.

Sage advice found here as always and I’m glad I slept on it ( sort of) before responding. Yesterday’s response would not have been very conducive to any future deals. Thanks to all those who responded.

The fact that we had an agreed upon deal and I already engaged an attorney still irks me, that and the fact that in two years of actively looking for a house,this makes the fourth deal to fall through. Each of them result in way to much brain space devoted to imagining what we will do to make each of these places our new home. I only want to move one more time and my brain is tired from living in each of these perspective homes in my mind. I’m tired, boss.

Lastly, I’m thankful I at least have a comfortable place to live. Nothing to do now but sit and watch. There is still no inventory out there around here and interest rates are poised to jump. My timing is not going to be good in that respect, I’m afraid.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Tickdoc

Well, agreed upon price, owner said they would like to share attorney.

I engaged an attorney to draw contract and started title search, abstract search, etc.

Reached out to seller to let them know ball is rolling. I was getting ready to send them the estimate for all fees when the seller asked for my email to send me something.

I get his email tonight and he has upped the price $130k.

He Apparently had an auction/estate person in and they engaged a broker who did a cma of the property and decided it would list for way more than we agreed on.

***?

I’ve already engaged the attorney and now I’ll be on the hook for his fees, or at least what they have done so far.

Is it within my rights to expect the seller pay half or all of what I am to owe this attorney based on a verbal agreement of price?

People suck.

Boy, no kidding...The world is exceedingly short of integrity these days.

Good luck on the search for the next house..