How W I D E are you?

[dddd]

Originally Posted by livingminimal

I dont really care about going fast, so 38mm are pretty nice/fun/sufficient/cool/whatever on the road.

This year I installed actual 34mm Allroad tubeless tires on one of my old 'cross bikes, and have by now done a lot of road riding on it.
While I can for the most part keep up with the faster riders in the group with this setup, I sense that it is a slower bike than my Trek Koppenberg or my Argon18 Gallium Pro with their lighter weight and 23mm tires.

But it's a good bike overall that is of course more forgiving of irregular road surface conditions and that can handle any on or off-road situation, and with nary a puncture.

[weaponsgrade]

I've got a set EL Barlow Passes on my gravel bike. I am impressed by how well they do on the road. Still, for a pure road ride, I'm on 700x25s (which actually measure 28mm wide).

[Clean39T]

Originally Posted by benb

I went through a period where I started experimenting with lower pressures and if you're working on guesswork I think getting one tire wrong can make you think the other tire is wrong and then you're chasing your tail.

Jan's graph based on 15% drop is a really useful starting point. I think most of us will have a little fudge factor up or down based on preference and tire selection and such but the basic idea of calculating based on load on each tire is really sound.

For me the last step was increasing the rear tire pressure.. I was generally running it too low cause I was reluctant to go all the way to a 60% rear/40% front setup. It does seem really extreme when you start trying his recommendations. But often when the rear was too low for some reason it was tricking me and making me think something was wrong with the front.

I checked my pressures post-ride today, and I was just under 50psi up front, probably 55psi in the rear..... 28c Panaracer Gravel A tires on Easton EA90SL 25mm rims. I'm around 185-190lbs right now. It felt perfect on the road, not squishy, not harsh.

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[enr1co]

Originally Posted by fa63

I just came back from a short ride with my new 38c Gravelking slicks. Some impressions:

- They seemed to roll well at 45 psi front / 55 psi rear; didn't really feel like they were slowing me down on the flats or going uphill.
- They didn't feel soft or squirmy.
- The handling was different for sure; wheel flop was more pronounced. If you are constantly switching between bikes with small tires vs. larger ones, I can see how this could be annoying. Otherwise, I imagine it will be fine once you are adjusted to the new handling characteristics.
- They were super comfortable (expected).
- They look pretty cool

Also trying out 38 Gravelking slicks. Pump them up to 65-70 psi (max is 75 w/ std tubes) when I know my ride will be primarily road. Pretty firm, non squirmy and comfortable with the higher sidewalls. Should I go off on a firetrail, will drop the pressure to ~40 so the ride home on the road will feel squishy in comparison.

[Bob Ross]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

38 mm tires still give you the “connected to the pavement” sensation that makes a racing bike feel so fast.

Jan Heine is on drugs.

Two of my three road bikes still sport 23mm tires because I simply haven't felt any improvement with wider tires for the types of road surfaces I typically ride them on. The third road bike has 25mm tires because I wanted to experience what everyone was talking about re: wider tires, and it turns out 28mm don't fit on that bike. My gravel bike has 32mm slicks now, though I've also used 35 and 37mm knobbies on that bike and may change back depending on anticipated usage.

38mm for fast paved riding? Seriously, drugs.

[livingminimal]

Originally Posted by dddd

T
While I can for the most part keep up with the faster riders in the group with this setup, I sense that it is a slower bike than my Trek Koppenberg or my Argon18 Gallium Pro with their lighter weight and 23mm tires.

No group rides for me, so no problem for me. Shakka brah!

[Ttx1]

I’ve been riding Compass EL Something Pass in 35 for a lot of rides on my “allroad” bike.

When I take out ye olde Spooky Skeletor with mere 28c tubs, I feel like I have a constant tailwind.

That said, feeling aside, I don’t see radically different numbers on familiar routes.

[citycyclist247]

23 mm. I ride track so I need that nartow width.

[scottcw2]

For Bay Area riders, what width 650b would you use for gravel, single track in the area? @joosttx, etc.

[pakora]

I'm with Jan on this one. I'll agree with the weight comment and the spin style from Clean - 205 at a fighting weight, I'm roughly a pound per centimetre of height.

48s on my gravel wheels (and 57s I haven't tried... I just can't believe wider on a regular bike makes any sense. Still bought 'em though heh), 38s on my dynamo "all road" wheels. 32s on my commuter only because that's the limit of the frame, but that bike doesn't go offroad.

My CAAD9 doesn't take larger than a 25 on the back with a 23mm rim and as a result I only like that bike for criterium racing, which is to say that if you include the Kurt trainer, a laptop on a stand and Zwift in the offseason, I have a very practical and modular spin bike that transforms into a road bike for anyone willing to ride rock hard skinny tires.

I rode it once last year. It "felt" fast on smooth pavement a dry, sunny day. That was cool.

Not cool enough to ride it again though.

[weaponsgrade]

Originally Posted by scottcw2

For Bay Area riders, what width 650b would you use for gravel, single track in the area? @joosttx, etc.

I run 700x38s (EL Compass Barlow Passes) on my gravel, Thunder Burts 2.25 on my rigid 29er, and Racing Ralph/Nobby Nic combo on my FS 29er. The Barlow Passes seem to be a good compromise between road and dirt performance. I don't think they'd work very well in wet dirt conditions. I've ridden them all over the Headlands and Tam (Railroad Grade, Coastal, Miwok, Diaz, Coyote Ridge, etc. - but not Eldridge Grade that one seems like it'd be a little too much for the BPs).

For fireroading, I switch between the rigid 29er and gravel drop bar. I like the better control I get using mtn bars on single track. The rigid 29er has become my goto for Mt. Sutro/Laguna Honda in SF.

The FS 29er gets pulled out for bigger stuff like Skeggs, Tamarancho, Demo, and China Camp. I don't think I'd want to go any narrower than a 2.25 for Bay Area single track. Though I used to ride all these places on a rigid 26er, 2.10s pumped to concrete-level suppleness, and cantis. And once I rode Skeggs and Demo on a CX with 32s.

I was at Skeggs yesterday and demo'd my brother's new Ripmo with 2.5 Maxxis Assegai (I think) tires. Those tires/width hooked up much better than the Racing Ralph I had on my Ripley. I'll probably get something more aggressive on the next tire and see if I can squeeze in something bigger.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by pakora

My CAAD9 doesn't take larger than a 25 on the back with a 23mm rim and as a result I only like that bike for criterium racing, which is to say that if you include the Kurt trainer, a laptop on a stand and Zwift in the offseason, I have a very practical and modular spin bike that transforms into a road bike for anyone willing to ride rock hard skinny tires.

I rode it once last year. It "felt" fast on smooth pavement a dry, sunny day. That was cool.

Not cool enough to ride it again though.

I wonder if Cannondale improved tire clearance on later CAAD9s. I have a CAAD9 from the last year of production (2010) and it will fit 28s on a 23mm rim (Gravel King tires on Velocity A23 rims). The clearance on the back is generous while the front is probably at the lower limit. For most rides, I use Conti GP4000 SII 700x23 tires that measure 26mm on Kinlin XR26T rims. Loads of tire clearance and very good ride quality with 95PSI front/100PSI rear.

Greg

[Jaybee]

Originally Posted by weaponsgrade

I run 700x38s (EL Compass Barlow Passes) on my gravel, Thunder Burts 2.25 on my rigid 29er, and Racing Ralph/Nobby Nic combo on my FS 29er. The Barlow Passes seem to be a good compromise between road and dirt performance. I don't think they'd work very well in wet dirt conditions. I've ridden them all over the Headlands and Tam (Railroad Grade, Coastal, Miwok, Diaz, Coyote Ridge, etc. - but not Eldridge Grade that one seems like it'd be a little too much for the BPs).

For fireroading, I switch between the rigid 29er and gravel drop bar. I like the better control I get using mtn bars on single track. The rigid 29er has become my goto for Mt. Sutro/Laguna Honda in SF.

The FS 29er gets pulled out for bigger stuff like Skeggs, Tamarancho, Demo, and China Camp. I don't think I'd want to go any narrower than a 2.25 for Bay Area single track. Though I used to ride all these places on a rigid 26er, 2.10s pumped to concrete-level suppleness, and cantis. And once I rode Skeggs and Demo on a CX with 32s.

I was at Skeggs yesterday and demo'd my brother's new Ripmo with 2.5 Maxxis Assegai (I think) tires. Those tires/width hooked up much better than the Racing Ralph I had on my Ripley. I'll probably get something more aggressive on the next tire and see if I can squeeze in something bigger.

Your Ripley absolutely deserves bigger, more aggressive tires. MTB on 2.5/2.6 is almost a different sport than 2.2

Maybe DHF/Aggressor as a start? Assegai is a hardcore Enduro/gravity tire.

My gravel bike is almost always wearing 650b x 2ish. I like it a lot better on trails and road compared to 700x40. Probably an experience akin to the old school 26er.

[weaponsgrade]

Originally Posted by Jaybee

Your Ripley absolutely deserves bigger, more aggressive tires. MTB on 2.5/2.6 is almost a different sport than 2.2

Maybe DHF/Aggressor as a start? Assegai is a hardcore Enduro/gravity tire.

My gravel bike is almost always wearing 650b x 2ish. I like it a lot better on trails and road compared to 700x40. Probably an experience akin to the old school 26er.

The Racing Ralphs/Nobby Nics were what the bike originally came with. My Ripley is the LS model and I'm pretty sure the most I'll be able to squeeze in the back is a 2.4. It's almost time for a new tire and I'll be looking for something more aggressive.

[weiwentg]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

Depends on the bike. My Drifter is running 35mm and they perform well on and off road. I ran 32s on my recently sold MRB and that performed exceptionally well with that setup.
My Great Divide sits on belgium+ with 28s and is my go to road bike. The Ottrott is on 25mm tires and still rides extremely well planted and comfortable and has room for 28s, but I just haven't felt a need for them.
...

I've wondered about the bit in bold. The Drifter is designed to clear 45mm tires. On a given frame, wider tires will increase the trail. Within some limits, e.g. 23mm to 28mm, this won't be noticeable. If we are talking about going from 28mm to 38mm, it may be another story.

This is alluded in a comment on Heine's post by Michael Martinov, and Heine responds.

Michael Martinov says:
January 3, 2018 at 6:50 am
I compared wide and narrow tires, 42 and 32 mm Clement X’plor MSO, on my cyclocross bike and found one drawback with wide tires – the handling of the bike is worse, I think because contact patch of the front tire is almost square on the wide tires and more elongated in narrower tires. This is especially evident in mud, rough surface, and for a light cyclist (60 kg).

Jan Heine, Editor, Bicycle Quarterly says:
January 3, 2018 at 2:37 pm
You are right – wider tires change the handling of the bike because the wider tires stabilize the bike – this works a bit like the geometric trail of the front-end geometry, and thus it’s called pneumatic trail. The ideal bike for wide tires has a front-end geometry that is designed for the wider tires, usually by reducing the geometric trail. Then, a bike with wide tires can handle the same as a bike with narrower tires. We’ll cover that in another part of this series about ’12 Myths of Cycling.’

So, 38mm tires may make perfect sense, but the bike has to be designed around big tires. My road bike was technically designed for 23mm tires. I've run 25 and 28mm tires. I won't go back to 23s, and I may not even go back to 25s. However, the bike wasn't designed to handle with something like 38mm tires. In any case, it's got rim brakes, and the frame itself may not clear anything over 28mm.

When I get rid of that bike, I can see getting a road bike (or all-road bike?) designed for 32-38mm slick tires. Until then, I can't answer the question properly. There is no way I could try my primary road bike with 28mm and 38mm tires. If I could try it, I suspect I'd find my bike a bit sluggish, but that's a design issue not inherent to the tires. In absolute terms, 25-28mm is fine on roads in the Twin Cities roads, and it doesn't feel too harsh.