Vehicle attack in Toronto

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by parris

Matthew I'm a Corrections Officer as well as Instructor and Armorer.

Xnetter you're right about the consequences of having to take another's life. That being said the possibility of having to take a life is a very real part of the profession and is why training is as thorough as it is. If the responding officer had taken the killer's life it would've been a suicide by cop situation NOT an execution. The mindset is very different in each situation.

I will take issue with your statement of "casual killing". LEO's have to make many split second decisions throughout their career. A LEO having to take a life is the LAST thing they want to do. None of the officers I've known over my career local, state, fed have ever wanted to kill the people they have.

Thanks for perspective of somebody actually in the trenches. However, I don't think the guy's an asshole..but obviously has HUGE problems...NOT justifying what he did but this isn't the actions of a sane guy(if determined he wasn't influenced by ISIS to do these things..which is kinda insane too).

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by Polyglot

I am one of the exceedingly rare people who has had a family member murdered in the Greater Toronto Area. One of my cousins was murdered by a a man whose business he had invested large amounts of money in. His murder was a huge burden on all of us, especially as he was helping the fellow who ultimately murdered him. Once his death sank in, we all came to the same conclusion: in what way would society be better off with one further senseless death? The answer was clear to all of us that it would not be better off. We DID all agree that we would prefer that he never get out of prison, but none of us came to the conclusion that an eye for an eye is warranted. The Toronto Police, Ontario Provincial Police and prosecutor's office all did a fantastic job looking after my aunt and cousins and the murderer will likely spend the rest of his life in jail (life sentence with no parole eligibility for at least 25 years). It is my belief that after the families of the van killer's victims finish working with the police, they too will come to the same conclusion that we all came to: remove the murderer from civil society but not from the world of the living.

Well just to offer an opposing view. Ex family member was a convicted murderer and rapist and paroled. Married my sister without her knowing the history. Attacked my other sister one day and then was convicted of several murder/rapes he had committed while driving a truck. It's a total waste for him to rot in prison. He should be dead, plain and simple.

[redir]

I personally don't believe in capital punishment for the sole fact that innocent men have died as a result of it. Police and prosecutors throughout the history of the United States have a pretty heinous record of putting innocents through the system, especially ones of color. One man, one single solitary man, who is innocent and murdered by the state makes it never worth the risk.

Having said that, I would shed no tears if that cop, who showed amazing restraint and professionalism, popped a cap in his head.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by redir

I personally don't believe in capital punishment for the sole fact that innocent men have died as a result of it. Police and prosecutors throughout the history of the United States have a pretty heinous record of putting innocents through the system, especially ones of color. One man, one single solitary man, who is innocent and murdered by the state makes it never worth the risk.

Having said that, I would shed no tears if that cop, who showed amazing restraint and professionalism, popped a cap in his head.

So police executing people on the spot is OK? The officer did not kill the guy because he had a cell phone in his hand, if he shot him the officer would have been committing a murder.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by redir

I personally don't believe in capital punishment for the sole fact that innocent men have died as a result of it. Police and prosecutors throughout the history of the United States have a pretty heinous record of putting innocents through the system, especially ones of color. One man, one single solitary man, who is innocent and murdered by the state makes it never worth the risk.

Having said that, I would shed no tears if that cop, who showed amazing restraint and professionalism, popped a cap in his head.

Cognitive dissonance is alive and well.

[Gsinill]

Originally Posted by parris

The fact that he WASN'T shot is an anomaly.

Or based on good judgment by the police officer?

Originally Posted by parris

I for one would really like to see the force continuum as well as that departments UOF policy.

In addition, maybe every police department should include this video as part of the LEO curriculum as a perfect example for de-escalation: https://www.nytimes.com/video/world/...not-shoot.html

- "I have a gun in my pocket!"
- "I don't care, get down!"
...
Police officers holsters his gun
...

I hate the overuse of the word, but this officer comes as close as it gets to being called a hero IMHO.

[Tony]

Originally Posted by jamesdak

Well just to offer an opposing view. Ex family member was a convicted murderer and rapist and paroled. Married my sister without her knowing the history. Attacked my other sister one day and then was convicted of several murder/rapes he had committed while driving a truck. It's a total waste for him to rot in prison. He should be dead, plain and simple.

Worked for dept of corrections for many years, level 4 institutions, vocational instructor. My program was the only one provided for those with high security level, outside under gun cover. I was responsible for sitting in ICC (Initial Classification Committee) representing education both academic and vocational. The inmates would be escorted in by an officer, hands handcuffed behind back and sit in a chair turn around, back of chair facing committee. The committee would go through the inmates case factors to determine housing and other factors including education, work, enemies...
There are really sadistic monsters among us. You don't hear the details of a 11 year old boy raped and tortured, like being stabbed 52 times, superficial 1" stabs as the boy is being raped over a period of hours. Some monsters should be dead.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

So police executing people on the spot is OK? The officer did not kill the guy because he had a cell phone in his hand, if he shot him the officer would have been committing a murder.

You really need to Google "logical fallacies" because that's a doozy of a Straw Man right there.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by redir

You really need to Google "logical fallacies" because that's a doozy of a Straw Man right there.

Yea, maybe some irony here then since I teach about cognitive bias and logical fallacies. However, based on your statement that it was just restraint that saved the life of the perpetrator and not actual procedure and rule of law I am not sure how this was a straw man. Perhaps I completely missed the point that you were making. It sounded to me that you would have been ok if the cop had just decided to kill the guy. Perhaps you just meant that has death would not have bothered you and not the part about cops deciding on who lives and who dies based on restraint.

[redir]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

Yea, maybe some irony here then since I teach about cognitive bias and logical fallacies. However, based on your statement that it was just restraint that saved the life of the perpetrator and not actual procedure and rule of law I am not sure how this was a straw man. Perhaps I completely missed the point that you were making. It sounded to me that you would have been ok if the cop had just decided to kill the guy. Perhaps you just meant that has death would not have bothered you and not the part about cops deciding on who lives and who dies based on restraint.

Yeah it's not like the kid who got shot holding a cell phone. Even though he was breaking windows he obviously doesn't deserve what he got. If he broke my window I would not want him shot over it, but if he killed my wife by running her down then no I would not shed a tear, that kind of thing.

Please believe me I am one to advocate regularly, though not on this forum, how disgusted I am by police brutality in this nation.

[parris]

Gsinill At this time there's not enough information to draw a conclusion as to the officer's judgement. The video just doesn't show enough from both a time and point of view. If the officer was wearing a body camera and if it was recording if it's ever made available for public viewing that may very well answer a number of questions. It could very well be that the officer saw that the driver did NOT have a firearm and was going for a suicide by cop situation. We just don't know at this point but there are a number of potential issues shown in the video.

The video like many other's will assuredly make it's way into academy classes. Deescalation may or may not factor into what this video would be used for. We want to keep in mind that these situations are typically very fast paced, stressful, and fluid second to second. The video playback gives time and lack of stress to analyze the decisions that were made. Seeing these from a distance makes it easy to say "that cop should've or not done X'.

[parris]

What Tony describes is unfortunately a fair amount of the prison population these days and it's accurate.

The one inmate that sticks out for me was this "individual" that I transported to state prison many years ago. He had been convicted in the rape and abuse of a Five year old girl. He actually stated in front of several people "She tempted me into doing it".

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by redir

Yeah it's not like the kid who got shot holding a cell phone. Even though he was breaking windows he obviously doesn't deserve what he got. If he broke my window I would not want him shot over it, but if he killed my wife by running her down then no I would not shed a tear, that kind of thing.

Please believe me I am one to advocate regularly, though not on this forum, how disgusted I am by police brutality in this nation.

OK, fair enough. Wishing someone dead for killing a loved one is one thing, that everyone can understand. I am glad you are not advocating extrajudicial killings by police.

[cmg]

was a motive ever disclosed? I can't google it.

[GOTHBROOKS]

the whole “incel” thing is so gross.
http://www.wehuntedthemammoth.com/20...es/#more-29754