Vehicle attack in Toronto

[dancinkozmo]

Originally Posted by rousseau

There are a lot of generalized North American similarities between Canadians and Americans, but the way this incident played out is one example of the various cultural differences between the two countries.

It's pretty clear that the perpetrator would have been shot to death immediately in the U.S. With gun ownership and crime so unbelievably high there, the automatic assumption by police appears to be that any person of interest in any sort of incident is highly likely to be armed and dangerous. It's always shoot first and ask questions later there.

Not so here.

BS.....try telling sammy yatims family how restrained our cops are..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lG6OTyjzAgg

[GOTHBROOKS]

the last bit about asking to see the departments uof came off to me like you disagreed with the officers way of handling it. like he should have shot him.

[Matthew]

News reports are saying he specifically targeted women. Apparently posted a cryptic post online hailing other suspects whom targeted women. And rented the van. Clearly premeditated. It's great they let him live though.

[parris]

I wasnt there and have no right to agree or disagree with the choice the officer made. My asking about the UOF policy and the force continuum comes from seeing changes in both depending on department which will steer the options available to officers.

I have seen several videos where after UOF policies have been changed where it caused the officer to hesitate on his/her choices leading to further injury to party's involved.

[Mikej]

Well now the lawyer that represents this thing can drag this out in court for years so the victims families can be reminded all the more that this turd is still alive and their family, friends, relatives, moms, dads, sons etc are gone - while this turd gets to claim mental deficiencies as a defense. The lawyer will call on his clients rights and a fair trial and the people that were killed have no rights anymore. I just hope these people who lost loved ones find peace knowing the cop denied him what he wanted - to be shot - ****ing sucks

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Well now the lawyer that represents this thing can drag this out in court for years so the victims families can be reminded all the more that this turd is still alive and their family, friends, relatives, moms, dads, sons etc are gone - while this turd gets to claim mental deficiencies as a defense. The lawyer will call on his clients rights and a fair trial and the people that were killed have no rights anymore. I just hope these people who lost loved ones find peace knowing the cop denied him what he wanted - to be shot - ****ing sucks

Yeah, f*** the presumption of innocence, let's just shoot 'em all.

[Matthew]

Is there really presumption of innocence in this case?

[Mikej]

Originally Posted by Llewellyn

Yeah, f*** the presumption of innocence, let's just shoot 'em all.

So, I didn’t say anybody should be shot, just the whole thing sucks. are you being sarcastic or do you think they should all be shot or Whoever all of ‘em are?

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Mikej

So, I didn’t say anybody should be shot, just the whole thing sucks. are you being sarcastic or do you think they should all be shot or Whoever all of ‘em are?

I’m positive he was being sarcastic. Sarcasm doesn’t come across online well .

The whole thing does suck, I agree. I have several friends who are or were LEOs. It’s a really hard job to do well. This Montreal officer did the best job he could under the circumstances, none of us could have done any better. He had no idea who this guy was and how dangerous he was. Yes, this will drag through the courts for years but quick decisions are not always the best decisions. This killer may end up behind bars or he may end up behind bars in a psychiatric lock up. Either way he’s likely to never be part of society again.

It’s all so sad for everyone who lost a friend or family member.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by Mikej

Well now the lawyer that represents this thing can drag this out in court for years so the victims families can be reminded all the more that this turd is still alive and their family, friends, relatives, moms, dads, sons etc are gone - while this turd gets to claim mental deficiencies as a defense. The lawyer will call on his clients rights and a fair trial and the people that were killed have no rights anymore. I just hope these people who lost loved ones find peace knowing the cop denied him what he wanted - to be shot - ****ing sucks

And the measure of a reasoned society is one that doesn't react to henious violence with more senseless heinous violence. Nothing a cop at the roadside or a trial produces will ever be a balm for the families who lost loved ones. Their burden is lifelong one that isn't easily lifted by really anything any of us can do.

But as a group we can make a decision that we won't stoop to the kind of barbarism that others may commit and paint that with some slop coat that we label as justice. Retribution is not that. We are all better off in the long run giving even the worst possible defendants due process and the kinds of protections that show we aren't, to use your words, exactly like the "turds" who commit these acts.

[Llewellyn]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And the measure of a reasoned society is one that doesn't react to henious violence with more senseless heinous violence. Nothing a cop at the roadside or a trial produces will ever be a balm for the families who lost loved ones. Their burden is lifelong one that isn't easily lifted by really anything any of us can do.

But as a group we can make a decision that we won't stoop to the kind of barbarism that others may commit and paint that with some slop coat that we label as justice. Retribution is not that. We are all better off in the long run giving even the worst possible defendants due process and the kinds of protections that show we aren't, to use your words, exactly like the "turds" who commit these acts.

This is what I was getting at.

[colker]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And the measure of a reasoned society is one that doesn't react to henious violence with more senseless heinous violence. Nothing a cop at the roadside or a trial produces will ever be a balm for the families who lost loved ones. Their burden is lifelong one that isn't easily lifted by really anything any of us can do.

But as a group we can make a decision that we won't stoop to the kind of barbarism that others may commit and paint that with some slop coat that we label as justice. Retribution is not that. We are all better off in the long run giving even the worst possible defendants due process and the kinds of protections that show we aren't, to use your words, exactly like the "turds" who commit these acts.

Exactly.

[xnetter]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And the measure of a reasoned society is one that doesn't react to henious violence with more senseless heinous violence. Nothing a cop at the roadside or a trial produces will ever be a balm for the families who lost loved ones. Their burden is lifelong one that isn't easily lifted by really anything any of us can do.

But as a group we can make a decision that we won't stoop to the kind of barbarism that others may commit and paint that with some slop coat that we label as justice. Retribution is not that. We are all better off in the long run giving even the worst possible defendants due process and the kinds of protections that show we aren't, to use your words, exactly like the "turds" who commit these acts.

Well put.

[Polyglot]

I am one of the exceedingly rare people who has had a family member murdered in the Greater Toronto Area. One of my cousins was murdered by a a man whose business he had invested large amounts of money in. His murder was a huge burden on all of us, especially as he was helping the fellow who ultimately murdered him. Once his death sank in, we all came to the same conclusion: in what way would society be better off with one further senseless death? The answer was clear to all of us that it would not be better off. We DID all agree that we would prefer that he never get out of prison, but none of us came to the conclusion that an eye for an eye is warranted. The Toronto Police, Ontario Provincial Police and prosecutor's office all did a fantastic job looking after my aunt and cousins and the murderer will likely spend the rest of his life in jail (life sentence with no parole eligibility for at least 25 years). It is my belief that after the families of the van killer's victims finish working with the police, they too will come to the same conclusion that we all came to: remove the murderer from civil society but not from the world of the living.

[sailorboy]

Originally Posted by FlashUNC

And the measure of a reasoned society is one that doesn't react to henious violence with more senseless heinous violence. Nothing a cop at the roadside or a trial produces will ever be a balm for the families who lost loved ones. Their burden is lifelong one that isn't easily lifted by really anything any of us can do.

But as a group we can make a decision that we won't stoop to the kind of barbarism that others may commit and paint that with some slop coat that we label as justice. Retribution is not that. We are all better off in the long run giving even the worst possible defendants due process and the kinds of protections that show we aren't, to use your words, exactly like the "turds" who commit these acts.

Well said, and not to mention that the only good reason to keep capital punishment in modern society--and akaik, the most often cited reason from it's supporters, is to act as a strong deterrence against committing murder. Clearly that wouldn't deter an individual who is seeking suicide by cop as the final outcome in this gruesome act.