Advice: Campy BB 'clicking' sound

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mzilliox

I swapped wheels, and i still have my popping sound. It almost sounds like its coming from the front end. I tightened the headset, it was pretty tight, still popping/clicking, rotationally, consistent. fork damage? ill try cleaning the dropouts. it happens whether i pedal or not, so pretty sure its not the bb or crankset.

Take the front end apart, clean and grease..particularly under the bearings if it's a drop-in type Cart bearing HS..Even pry the seals off, grease in there too..(seals back on)...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Thanks for all the advice, took me a while to find the time for disassembly.

I don't know if this is related to the noise, but it took some oomph to pull the non-drive side out, and when the crank came out the bearings dislodged from the crank arm and remained in the cup.

Untitled by cgolvin, on Flickr
Untitled by cgolvin, on Flickr

Not sure what the best path forward is here. I have a new set of SR cups (not the green Record ones, got OP's post after I bought these) but I think I need to first remove the bearing from the cup and reattach it to the crank, no?

Your collective wisdom and guidance appreciated.

Yes, pull the bearing of(remember, there is a clip that holds the RH one on)..but I'm thinking something is corroded, or something otherwise that bearing wouldn't have been stuck in the cup..new bearings? If using the SR cups, take the seals out of the cups now in and use the seals..seals and grease a good thing.

[VC Slim]

My Record BB clicking was silenced by rotating the clip 180 degrees. Good luck with finding a solution. I know how annoying it can be.

[huck*this]

My understanding is that it takes more than 45nm. I think we are aiming for around 60nm. I am 225lbs and built like a line-man haha. I have to put everything I got into it with a large torque wrench.

What I would do. Like Cal said. New cups. Goes in dry. Clean up the threads and torque her down.

Also just looking at the cups. You sure those are Campy cups? Look different to me. Although I haven't seen Eng thread but would assume it looks the same as ITA.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Yes, pull the bearing of(remember, there is a clip that holds the RH one on)..but I'm thinking something is corroded, or something otherwise that bearing wouldn't have been stuck in the cup..new bearings? If using the SR cups, take the seals out of the cups now in and use the seals..seals and grease a good thing.

Sorry, but I'm confused by exactly what you mean by "seals" — when I look at the SR cups, both the existing ones and the new ones, I don't see anything I'd call a seal.

I reinstalled the old cups last night just to make sure the threads were well lubricated. Next I plan to reinstall the cranks using the old clip and wave washer, making sure that the insides of the cups are greased. Also, will make sure that the securing bolt's threads are lubed (I think you also said to lube the teeth on the crank axle, if that's what you meant by "hirth teeth".)

[bigbill]

I'm chasing a noise that occurs when I'm standing or torqueing over hard while seated. At speed, no noise. I've cleaned and regreased the bearings and cups, cleaned and lubed the rear QR and hub/dropout interface, and done the same for the front. Still the same. I swapped pedals last night, will see this afternoon. The Ultegra pedals I took off have been on that crankset since late 2012 and they had some play in them. I had a new set of 105's in the travel box.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by huck*this

What I would do. Like Cal said. New cups. Goes in dry. Clean up the threads and torque her down.

"Goes in dry"? No lube on the threads? Hmm, at odds with OP I think.

Originally Posted by huck*this

Also just looking at the cups. You sure those are Campy cups? Look different to me. Although I haven't seen Eng thread but would assume it looks the same as ITA.

Yes, they are Campy SR cups.

[Hindmost]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Sorry, but I'm confused by exactly what you mean by "seals" — when I look at the SR cups, both the existing ones and the new ones, I don't see anything I'd call a seal.

If both of your sets of cups are SR you may not have any seals. OP posted some images above, the right-hand image shows white things that are the seals.

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Hindmost

If both of your sets of cups are SR you may not have any seals. OP posted some images above, the right-hand image shows white things that are the seals.

Now I see -- thanks for clarifying.

[Mzilliox]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Take the front end apart, clean and grease..particularly under the bearings if it's a drop-in type Cart bearing HS..Even pry the seals off, grease in there too..(seals back on)...

thanks brother, ended up being tubular valve stems knocking on the rim because ive been running lower tires pressures lately i guess. put a nut on the valve stem and no more sound! when i swapped wheels, i was still using tubulars, so still had the valve stems a knockin. weird, as they had not done that on other bikes as far as i can recall.

[Calnago]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

"Goes in dry"? No lube on the threads? Hmm, at odds with OP I think.

Yes, they are Campy SR cups.

Hmm... I'm not sure why the whole quote didn't come through, but I don't think I ever said to put the cups in dry, in this case at least. In some pressfit applications you can, depending on tolearances, but not this threaded situation. An antiseize compound all over the threads of the cups and the shell for sure.

And seeing those pics... yeah, toss the cups for sure and replace with the new ones. That bearing has seized itself nicely to the cup. Not sure what kind of shape those bearings are in. The thing with the CULT bearings is that both the bearings and races are specially treated, as opposed to the many "hybrid" ceramic bearings, where the bearings may be ceramic but the races are steel, which still requires grease. As long as there's no huge openings that allow for chunky bits of road debris to get in there, I prefer to remove the seals and just use a couple drops of light synthetic oil in the ceramic bearings. If you have cups that don't have any seals, I suspect those are quite old stock. They all have seals now, and you can simply remove them if you want to use them with CULT bearings. Your choice. Pretty sure that you could run the CULT bearings in a constant stream of water with no rust issues, but no so with the Chorus or Record bearings. You think your bearing is seized?... here is a Chorus bearing after a nice wet winter (albeit abused I'm sure)... not fun when they get to that shape.


Chorus cups used to be pewter, then that greenish color, but I think now they're all just the same (black) and all come with seals in them. There is no designated SR cups anymore, just RE. I have several sets here, and even the set from 2014 has the seals in it.
Here's a set with the seals removed... these are for a pressfit application, but the insides are all the same, just varies a bit depending on the shell you're installing them into...
Cups before removing seals...


And after seals removed...


As for the hirth joint bolt torque... I always use 50Nm, dab smack in the middle of their specified range of 40-60Nm. Never been a problem.

Good luck.

[cgolvin]

Thanks much. My comment about dry cups was in response to huckthis, not you.

The bearing came out of the cup pretty easily so my first try is going to be simply cleaning and reassembling everything with additional lubrication and proper torque. I'm most of the way there and will test it out on a not-too-long ride Saturday (since the noise is not necessarily easy to reproduce, really only started with some hard climbing and then came & went). If the noise remains then I'll move to replacing the cups. FWIW, after reassembly (no chain) the cranks turn very smoothly.

However, the cups I purchased don't (best I can tell looking through the plastic) include seals. The package says "SR outboard cups-BC EPS COMPATIBLE".

Update to come once I've done a road test. I really appreciate everyone's assistance here.

[Calnago]

When you cleaned out the cups, did you notice any of the anodization on the inside surfaces being worn off? If not, then maybe just cleaning them up and resintalling everything might work. For the bearings, really flush some degreaser through them, even just hold them under the tap to flush out any chunky bits of debris. Then blow them out with compressed air. They will spin like a dental tool. Get them looking like this if you can...

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by cgolvin

Sorry, but I'm confused by exactly what you mean by "seals" — when I look at the SR cups, both the existing ones and the new ones, I don't see anything I'd call a seal.

I reinstalled the old cups last night just to make sure the threads were well lubricated. Next I plan to reinstall the cranks using the old clip and wave washer, making sure that the insides of the cups are greased. Also, will make sure that the securing bolt's threads are lubed (I think you also said to lube the teeth on the crank axle, if that's what you meant by "hirth teeth".)

Yup, no seals on SR, yes seals in Record..take those seals out and install in SR cups. Yes, grease on teeth. And for right above, grease inside those bearings!!

[cgolvin]

Originally Posted by Calnago

When you cleaned out the cups, did you notice any of the anodization on the inside surfaces being worn off? If not, then maybe just cleaning them up and resintalling everything might work. For the bearings, really flush some degreaser through them, even just hold them under the tap to flush out any chunky bits of debris. Then blow them out with compressed air. They will spin like a dental tool. Get them looking like this if you can...

No wear that I could feel, the cups seemed in very good condition, which is why I opted to first just clean & reassemble everything.

Unfortunately your note arrived after I'd put it back together so I didn't flush the bearings, but to me they spin very smoothly, couldn't detect any grit. Though, to be fair, they certainly don't look like your picture.