Ti experts wanted: VaMoots comparison

[855]

hi folks,
i have one question today:

i have 2 VaMoots roadbikes here, first my beloved 2008 VaMoots SL 6/4 Ti, and second a new project, last version of the VaMoots CR, tube shape is more voluminous, 44HT, massive slope.
both have english threaded bottom bracket and geometry is exactly the same. both have Moots carbon forks.





i´ve rode the SL for many years, it rides fine, but sometimes i think it could be stiffer. i´m a big guy, 192cm (6´3) and 88kg (194lbs). stiffness is not really a problem, perhaps it´s only in my head

would the CR with it´s massive tubes, 44HT, tapered fork and ENVE parts be so much stiffer, that the change is worth it?

or ist the SL with 6/4 tubes and Moots stem stiff enough for every adventure?

heart vs. head. how would you decide?

thank you!

[uber]

I'm pretty sure you know the answer is that it only matters what you think after you ride both. Although as a material, Ti will outlive all of us, frame building has changed over time. My 2004 Spectrum Super rode very differently than my 2014 Eriksen with 44 HT, tapered fork and larger chain stays. You most likely need both of those frames. Best of luck.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 855

hi folks,
i have one question today:

i have 2 VaMoots roadbikes here, first my beloved 2008 VaMoots SL 6/4 Ti, and second a new project, last version of the VaMoots CR, tube shape is more voluminous, 44HT, massive slope.
both have english threaded bottom bracket and geometry is exactly the same. both have Moots carbon forks.





i´ve rode the SL for many years, it rides fine, but sometimes i think it could be stiffer. i´m a big guy, 192cm (6´3) and 88kg (194lbs). stiffness is not really a problem, perhaps it´s only in my head

would the CR with it´s massive tubes, 44HT, tapered fork and ENVE parts be so much stiffer, that the change is worth it?

or ist the SL with 6/4 tubes and Moots stem stiff enough for every adventure?

heart vs. head. how would you decide?

thank you!

Worth is a big word..

Not sure in a blind test you could tell the difference but I'd ride the SL just cuz it looks better with a more horizontal top tube.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by uber

I'm pretty sure you know the answer is that it only matters what you think after you ride both. Although as a material, Ti will outlive all of us, frame building has changed over time. My 2004 Spectrum Super rode very differently than my 2014 Eriksen with 44 HT, tapered fork and larger chain stays. You most likely need both of those frames. Best of luck.

I agree with this, and I will add, it might take more than a couple of rides.

I owned a Vamoots SL and a Compact SL at the same time (because I was curious to see if I could tell them apart), and I got an RSL when it was first introduced. Initially, I loved how much stiffer the RSL was, and I ended up selling the SLs. Now, I’m 5’10” and 170lbs, so my impressions of a stiffer frame may be different than yours (or even from someone my same height and weight, for that matter). Over time, I came to feel that the RSL was too stiff for my taste, and ended up replacing it with a ti bike with more traditional sized tubes.

I know Moots uses size-specific tubing on their models, but in the case of the SL, I doubt that tubes like the headtube got any beefier as the sizes went up. So, I would expect the CR with its larger tubes to be marginally stiffer than the Vamoots. Whether you ultimately prefer it is something only you can determine.

Purely from an aesthetic perspective, that SL is a thing of beauty. The tube proportions are just perfect, and the integrated seat binder was one of the quintessential Moots touches. But ultimately it’s the ride that matters (or should), so build the CR up, ride them for a while and decide for yourself.

edit: Ha, I was typing while OP was posting—I think we’re saying mostly the same thing.

[cadence90]

Originally Posted by 855

heart vs. head. how would you decide?

With neither. Or with both. Whatever. But not only one or the other.

Since you apparently own or have access to both frames, I would dispense with all internet forum opinions; I would build both frames as similar as I could; I would ride them until I myself knew which one I preferred; and then I would enjoy myself riding my Moots out in the real world.

As an Italian friend of mine told an American friend of mine, who was going on and on and on and on about some girl he was all hot and bothered about, "Michael, you cannot just talk about the emozionale!!!"....
.

[Mikej]

I’m going to guess the 6-4is stiffer. The RSL is what you want if it’s stiffness you seek. I’m not really convinced the 44mm head tube stiffens the frame.

[Craiger810]

I’m no expert, but the build you have on that SL is balanced perfectly. You also can’t tell it’s a large frame. Very nice, and can’t wait to see what you do to the CR!

[laupsi]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Worth is a big word..

Not sure in a blind test you could tell the difference but I'd ride the SL just cuz it looks better with a more horizontal top tube.

Agree w/this and w/Happycampyer; that SL is just about perfect!

[54ny77]

SL hands down. It just plain looks better.

(I would venture they both ride beautifully.)

One of these days I'll find me an SL in a 54/55.

[tigoat]

I would go with the SL 6/4 all the way. That SL is a rare breed nowadays and it looks classic. I used to think making my bikes oversize everything would make them very stiff and would ride great. Wrong. Nowadays I believe that making a bike too stiff, especially in the wrong places is very undesirable. The only place that needs torsional stiffness would be the drivetrain and front end. Most modern frames, especially these Moots are plenty stiff at the chainstays so whatever softness you could feel would likely be from something else, as there are so many component variables hang between you and the drivetrain on the frame. The beauty of riding a titanium frame is its springiness characteristic (feel magical) and I think that has been lost long ago with using all these oversize tubes.

[wallymann]

agree with everyone re: SL. the proportions are perfect for a big-boy sloping Ti frame.

[jtbadge]

I dig the look of the black logos on the newer one - I'd be inclined to keep your skinny tube version and update it with the black decals.

That said, the new one looks great and is probably better suited to a large rider. I'm about 215, and love the responsiveness to input of my alloy Rock Lobster and MAX Merckx. If you're set on a stiffer ride, go for the new one!

[yakstone]

That SL is jus pure sweetness!

I've had the Moots lust for years. Just waiting for the right 55 to come along.

Meanwhile my Serotta rides pretty darn nicely.

[alancw3]

i think you need to ask socalsteve as he has owned both an sl and an rsl among many other bikes and can give you a realistic assessment.

[tuscanyswe]

Originally Posted by wallymann

agree with everyone re: SL. the proportions are perfect for a big-boy sloping Ti frame.

Its not sloping tho ?