warranties that don't mean much - OPEN U.P.?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

it is too bad when companies dont stand behind their products in a meaningful way.

with a company like OPEN that is so invested in the social media scene as part of their advertising, presumably the best and only way to get their attention would be to turn the tables on them, but that's not easy to do.

anyway, on the flip side - if i were in the market for a carbon gravel bike, i would definitely consider Allied.

When i bought my Alfa new through a 3rd party, i had some questions and i called them, they immediately answered the phone and were happy to talk to me for a few minutes and lead me in the right direction. that definitely counts for something, especially when you are plunking down major dollars.

oh yeah, Allied looks great and their stuff looks top notch and I agree, always a good sign when a company is interested in talking even though you did not buy a product from them. But look at it this way, I have heard you say you would buy another allied in a heart beat so it does work. It does companies a lot better than to not listen. I have recommended OPENs to so many people, I know some have bought them (not just cuz of my rec of course), I now always say I would not buy one and don't recommend it.


Also after we talked about the XRAYS I feel like I am just talking here but no pictures so here they are

[tomato coupe]

So, you'd like a warranty frame replacement because:

1. You're dropping chains.
2. There's a small dent under the seat post clamp, which looks like it was over-tightened.

Is that about right?

[charliedid]

Does the seatpost slip?

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by tomato coupe

So, you'd like a warranty frame replacement because:

1. You're dropping chains.
2. There's a small dent under the seat post clamp, which looks like it was over-tightened.

Is that about right?

lol. If you read my posts properly.

Did not ask for a warranty replacement because of drop chains. Wish they would update their site with info they provided me which was, don't run a group without clutch RD. So its a known thing that this happens to a lot of people but how would someone find out?

2. Its not a small dent, if you look at the pictures, the tube is now ovalized and there is a space between the post and the tube (last picture), enough for water to get through it. Also there is a small dent sure which is not normal on any carbon bikes I ever had. Also you are accusing me of over tighting, do you work for OPEN? I have tighted that post maybe 4-5 times since I bought the frame, always to 4 or so nm, never even close to 5nm which is the max. Again, using a very nice torque wrench. And then again, I never asked for a warranty replacement, I just wanted a guanratee that if it eventually something happens that they will stand behind it. FUnny enough I found someone in the comments on the OPEN site that has had the same problem and we are probably not the only ones.

Originally Posted by charliedid

Does the seatpost slip?

No slip which is why I just decided to keep ridding it and deal with it if eventually something happens to it.

[zzy]

Ya while I'm no fan of the mainland chinese factory Cervelo (and presumably Open) uses, I don't see anything there that warrants a warranty. The deformation of the top of the ST is fine, and chain drops aren't really the fault of the OEM if you assembled it yourself. A major reason why the big OEMs demand all their bikes are professionally assembled is to (hopefully) avoid claims about poor assembly. The claim you need a clutch RD is crappy but typical of most customer service as they can't guarantee any combination of parts will work for their frame. As for Hambini, how much stock do you give to the opinion of a man who thinks it's funny calling himself "vagina head" because of his messy hair in 2020?

[colker]

Originally Posted by Pegoready

I saw that video and thought of your bike immediately.

I believe Hambini but how hard would it have been to share the frame x-ray with his viewers, showing all the voids? Even if it costs a bit of $, he's probably monitizing well with Youtube and could start a Patreon to support getting a bit more evidence based with his claims.

We just have to take his word for it, and like others have mentioned he doesn't do the best job at coming off unbiased though I do truly believe he is. He's just an engineer with zero tact.

The responses from Open, are to me, typical customer service from a Euro-engineer based bike company. They can't do any wrong and they will frustrate you to death with "Can you measure this?" "Take a pic of this" "What torque wrench did you use? When was it calibrated" etc. until the 5 years are U.P. on your warranty.

The BB bracket fit on the bike from Hambini video is so bad there is no way this is Hambini bias or no bias: it´s just terrible QC on a very expensive sports equipment. Unnacceptable.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by zzy

Ya while I'm no fan of the mainland chinese factory Cervelo (and presumably Open) uses, I don't see anything there that warrants a warranty. The deformation of the top of the ST is fine, and chain drops aren't really the fault of the OEM if you assembled it yourself. A major reason why the big OEMs demand all their bikes are professionally assembled is to (hopefully) avoid claims about poor assembly. The claim you need a clutch RD is crappy but typical of most customer service as they can't guarantee any combination of parts will work for their frame. As for Hambini, how much stock do you give to the opinion of a man who thinks it's funny calling himself "vagina head" because of his messy hair in 2020?

Like I said I knew they would never replace a bike because of chain drops and I never asked them to. However I will disagree about the deformation of the seat tube, deformed and dented and it will probably just get worst as time goes by. But maybe I am just way too picky and this is a common occurrence with carbon bikes. Maybe I expect too much but I don't accept that a bike frame that at that time had 1300 mile should have a dent and an ovalized seat tube... again, there is enough space btw the post and tube that water can get in there.

As far as hambini, him being childish and offensive does not mean that he does not know what he is talking about or that he is lying or making up crap about OPEN QC.

[colker]

Originally Posted by zzy

Ya while I'm no fan of the mainland chinese factory Cervelo (and presumably Open) uses, I don't see anything there that warrants a warranty. The deformation of the top of the ST is fine, and chain drops aren't really the fault of the OEM if you assembled it yourself. A major reason why the big OEMs demand all their bikes are professionally assembled is to (hopefully) avoid claims about poor assembly. The claim you need a clutch RD is crappy but typical of most customer service as they can't guarantee any combination of parts will work for their frame. As for Hambini, how much stock do you give to the opinion of a man who thinks it's funny calling himself "vagina head" because of his messy hair in 2020?

I don´t care for the bad jokes. All i care is for safe, well made framesets and the one on that video is way out on any bad mechanical tolerance scale. If Open decides to ignore it they may have to change the name of their bike to Close.

[zzy]

The point re: Hambini is how much do you really trust his claims? He provides no real evidence and jumps straight to very strong conclusions. Why not show proof of these voids if they're so easy to spot? He definitely has an axe to grind in general. The collar indentations are a function of the collar being reversed and heavily torqued. I'm sure the told you to install it like that, but this can and does happen with carbon and it's not something to be especially worried about until you see a propagating crack. I'm seen similar on many Cannondales. That said, if it's made where I think it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the post and/or tube ID is out of spec as well.

Regardless, OP has done the right thing and has a papertrail to back up a future warranty claim should the ST start to crack.

[R3awak3n]

Originally Posted by zzy

The point re: Hambini is how much do you really trust his claims? He provides no real evidence and jumps straight to very strong conclusions. Why not show proof of these voids if they're so easy to spot? He definitely has an axe to grind in general. The collar indentations are a function of the collar being reversed and heavily torqued. I'm sure the told you to install it like that, but this can and does happen with carbon and it's not something to be especially worried about until you see a propagating crack. I'm seen similar on many Cannondales. That said, if it's made where I think it is, I wouldn't be surprised if the post and/or tube ID is out of spec as well.

Regardless, OP has done the right thing and has a papertrail to back up a future warranty claim should the ST start to crack.

I actually never turn the collar that way (I know some say its better) but the OPEN supplied collar forces you to do it that way, it has a little notch so it only works a certain way. As far as heavily torqued, I get that it will be what I say against what they say but never been torqued to anything even close to max which is 5nm.

I did send them measurements and they said both my seatpost (ritchey super logic) and the tube was within spec but what do I know.

[mistermo]

OPEN has had reputation issues with their warranty for quite a while now. I rented one from AC a couple years back and absolutely loved it. But when it came down to buying one, I opted for a threaded BB and a company I had more confidence in, Allied. For sure, OPEN gets the credit for starting this segment, but Allied, to me, has a better product and company these days.

[dbnm]

When looking for an all-road / gravel bike, Allied was the only carbon bike I was seriously considering.

Great reputation, great product, made in America.

[FlashUNC]

Originally Posted by dbnm

When looking for an all-road / gravel bike, Allied was the only carbon bike I was seriously considering.

Great reputation, great product, made in America.

All built through the financial largesse of a family who left ruin in their wake in the American retail landscape.

But that's another topic for another time.

To the OP's point, I wouldn't sweat the small stuff. You've got the paper trail when/if the thing cracks and you can rub their nose in it and see what comes out.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

Did not ask for a warranty replacement because of drop chains. Wish they would update their site with info they provided me which was, don't run a group without clutch RD. So its a known thing that this happens to a lot of people but how would someone find out?

Regardless, you seem to think the dropped chains are caused by the frame?

Its not a small dent ...

I'd say, by any objective measure, that it is a small dent.

[vincenz]

That seat tube looks awfully thin, not surprised it got indented. Is the seatpost clamp not smooth and flat? Seems it there is something off about it on the inner side to cause a rectangular indent on the seat tube like that.

While Hambini’s delivery style may not be for everyone, you can’t ignore the numbers and engineering. QC is pretty bad on that. I’ve always thought OPEN was mostly hype. Not to dismiss your bike, hope it continues to give many miles without issues, but I think there is always a risk when going with any newer company.

For plastic bikes, I only trust the big brands with a proven warranty track record or a small boutique builder who will stand behind their work no matter what.