ti for gravel

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

if we're talking about the ideal material, and the ideal overall bike, that's cool, and all well and good for the discussion, but i think for a lot of people, these discussions can be a bit dangerous.

it sometimes seems like when we talk about gravel bikes, you can go down the road of thinking that you need a bespoke titanium bike, fitted with 200 bucks worth of tires, carbon wheels to keep the weight down, wireless drivetrains and hydraulic brakes.

you're easily into 5 figures when you think about a bike like this.

just want to remind everyone that to go out and have fun riding off pavement doesnt NEED the tip top of the line.

You don’t need a titanium wonder bike- this thread is an off shoot of the dream gravel bike thread. In my group of guys I ride with regularly I am the only one with a titanium friends. Most ride carbon, one ride aluminum (hates it) and one rides steel. One thing I would caution is not to buy a carbon bike from a small outfit for a cheap price. Warranties are important. And it seems like some small companies are not honoring them.

[nmrt]

To this I would add that for me Ti is where it is at. I have a 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata shod with 700 X 40c tires. I can make a direct comparison on how this bike rides on asphalt with my No22 Great Divide Disc.

Astonishingly, I find that my Stigmata with 700 X 40c tires (at 35 psi) rides so much stiffer than my Ti bike with 700 X 25c tires (at 78 psi). It was an eye opener!

I had thought that with 40c tires, the frame material would become immaterial. It did not! BTW, it would be interesting to find out at what tire width does frame material become immaterial.

Anyway, for me at least, Ti is where it is at for gravel compared to carbon.

Originally Posted by joosttx

You don’t need a titanium wonder bike- this thread is an off shoot of the dream gravel bike thread. In my group of guys I ride with regularly I am the only one with a titanium friends. Most ride carbon, one ride aluminum (hates it) and one rides steel. One thing I would caution is not to buy a carbon bike from a small outfit for a cheap price. Warranties are important. And it seems like some small companies are not honoring them.

[sparky33]

Originally Posted by Hilltopperny

the Zanconato I had had a nice ding in the top tube from handlebar strike because of how thin it was drawn. It was likely the lightest disc brake bike I have ever owned as it was a 1x set up with carbon wheels.

Originally Posted by colker

That ding didn´t compromise the safety of the bike. It´s a scar. It gives personality. Aluminium makes great climbing bikes.

Interesting thread wrt to relative durability of materials...
That aluminum Zanc was a ton of fun - super nice riding bike that did everything really well. I don't recall how the ding happened, probably in a cyclocross or some other messing around. I like that quality aluminum frames are still a thing.

Originally Posted by nmrt

To this I would add that for me Ti is where it is at. I have a 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata shod with 700 X 40c tires. I can make a direct comparison on how this bike rides on asphalt with my No22 Great Divide Disc.

Astonishingly, I find that my Stigmata with 700 X 40c tires (at 35 psi) rides so much stiffer than my Ti bike with 700 X 25c tires (at 78 psi). It was an eye opener!

I had thought that with 40c tires, the frame material would become immaterial. It did not! BTW, it would be interesting to find out at what tire width does frame material become immaterial.

Anyway, for me at least, Ti is where it is at for gravel compared to carbon.

Thank you for this comparison. By stiff, do you mean responsive or harsh?
Santa Cruz is what I consider to be good carbon for dirt riding. Their hardtails ride super nice, plush but responsive. Given that the new Stig takes this same carbon method, dropped stays and such, I was guessing that it would be a similarly optimal combination of character. Maybe not? Some reviews says that the Stig is on the comfier end relative to other carbon gravel...but who knows what is believable in reviews these days.

[colker]

Originally Posted by nmrt

To this I would add that for me Ti is where it is at. I have a 2020 Santa Cruz Stigmata shod with 700 X 40c tires. I can make a direct comparison on how this bike rides on asphalt with my No22 Great Divide Disc.

Astonishingly, I find that my Stigmata with 700 X 40c tires (at 35 psi) rides so much stiffer than my Ti bike with 700 X 25c tires (at 78 psi). It was an eye opener!

I had thought that with 40c tires, the frame material would become immaterial. It did not! BTW, it would be interesting to find out at what tire width does frame material become immaterial.

Anyway, for me at least, Ti is where it is at for gravel compared to carbon.

An aluminium Vitus is a very very flexy bike. An early litespeed titanium is a very very flexy bike.
An aluminium Klein is a very stiff bike. A Litespeed Vortex is a very stiff bike.

Conclusion?

[colker]

Titanium is indestructible. Untill it breaks. (who hasn´t heard of a high end titanium bike that cracked somewhere?)

Aluminum is stiff untill you ride a Vitus.(who doesn´t know how flexy can aluminum forks be?)

Carbon is superior untill it feels dead. (who hasn´t heard of a rider coming back to steel?)

Steel is real untill you feel it´s weight when climbing. (who doesn´t want a light aluminum frame when climbing?)

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by happycampyer

Very true. A Cannondale Topstone alloy with 105 is $1,750 complete at REI. I’ve seen all-road bikes that end up costing 10x+ that, but they aren’t 10x+ more fun to ride.

Nor are they 10x as 'good'...but $17,500 gravel bike?

BUT, ya reach a point of diminishing returns pretty fast on any bike.

https://www.habcycles.com/cross.html

$1045 for a disc brake model..add some 'stuff'..in the $2500 range and titanium.

[buddybikes]

A good touring bike would also be great for gravel - with the added benefit - go on a loaded tour on/off road. Perhaps front end would be a bit slower - but that is pretty small diminish for the advantage.

i.e.: Lynskey Backroad. Built like a tank

[colker]

Originally Posted by steveandbarb1

A good touring bike would also be great for gravel - with the added benefit - go on a loaded tour on/off road. Perhaps front end would be a bit slower - but that is pretty small diminish for the advantage.

i.e.: Lynskey Backroad. Built like a tank

Good ... but not great. A 26in mountain bike w/ drop bars, 2.2 lightweight tires and rigid fork would be better.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by colker

Good ... but not great. A 26in mountain bike w/ drop bars, 2.2 lightweight tires and rigid fork would be better.

Of course depending upon the gravel/dirt you are heading on. Many of us 2.2 is not needed.

[AngryScientist]

Ti for gravel. It's what's for dinner.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

Ti for gravel. It's what's for dinner.

Single speed? Fixie? Good on ya. My Vamoots has rear facing track dropouts, rode fixie, before I sobered up and made it a geared bike..

[AngryScientist]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Single speed? Fixie? Good on ya. My Vamoots has rear facing track dropouts, rode fixie, before I sobered up and made it a geared bike..

this bike is filled with pixie dust magic. steel fork, fixed gear, one brake. rides like a magic carpet over any surface.

[happycampyer]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Nor are they 10x as 'good'...but $17,500 gravel bike?

BUT, ya reach a point of diminishing returns pretty fast on any bike.

https://www.habcycles.com/cross.html

$1045 for a disc brake model..add some 'stuff'..in the $2500 range and titanium.

Agreed—diminishing returns for sure.

The stratospheric bikes I’ve seen have Lightweight disc wheels, CeramicSpeed doo-dads, etc. And a custom Parlee, Baum, Passoni or ti-carbon Firefly can easily hit $7 - 8K+ for frame/module/fuselage (depending on the terminology of the builder).

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by AngryScientist

this bike is filled with pixie dust magic. steel fork, fixed gear, one brake. rides like a magic carpet over any surface.

HA..I have a steel fork on my Vamoots also...rides like a dream and yup, I take it onto the 'dirt/gravel' all the time..27mm Vittoria Paves...Tubular, of course.

[Gummee]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

HA..I have a steel fork on my Vamoots also...rides like a dream and yup, I take it onto the 'dirt/gravel' all the time..27mm Vittoria Paves...Tubular, of course.

I have several pair of tubeless rims with varying tires on em and tubulars still ride better on the gravel than any of them.

...but you should see the looks I get when I tell people I'm riding tubulars! Like I've got a hand growing out of my forehead!

M