Making Bikes in US?

[hampco]

Originally Posted by nmrt

True. But the article does not address the elephant in the room. Can bike production come back in any meaningful way to the US if it is only making bikes like Allied, Argonaut, Pursuit, etc.

Perhaps: http://worksman.com/

[bigbill]

Originally Posted by hampco

Perhaps: http://worksman.com/

When I was a project engineer, I had a Worksman Trike with a big toolbox on the back. It was old and had been welded back together a few times, but exceeding payload is hard on the welds.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by nmrt

True. But the article does not address the elephant in the room. Can bike production come back in any meaningful way to the US if it is only making bikes like Allied, Argonaut, Pursuit, etc.

That's an odd turn of phrase, as the types of bikes we typically discuss here (multi-geared lightweights, MTBs, etc.) were never made in the US in any meaningful way to start with. While the US was a leader in bicycle production at the end of the 19th century and into the first decade or two of the 20th century, bicycle development in the US basically ceased after that. US manufacturers never really made it past single speed balloon tire bikes with coaster brakes. The US didn't really discover lightweight derailleur bikes until the 2nd Bike Boom of the 1970s, at which point these bikes or their components were being imported first from Europe, then from Japan, then finally from China.

[nmrt]

Well, Cannondale did make their alloy frames in the US. And did Trek not make their carbon frames here too? There may be others but i forget. I feel these were meaningful enough to say that US did have a relevant bike manufacturing industry. But yes, I agree even while Cannondale and Trek made their frames here, these US bike productions did not account for a vast percent of the total bikes sales. Yet, two major bike companies, Trek and Cannondale making bikes here was meaningful.

Originally Posted by Mark McM

That's an odd turn of phrase, as the types of bikes we typically discuss here (multi-geared lightweights, MTBs, etc.) were never made in the US in any meaningful way to start with. While the US was a leader in bicycle production at the end of the 19th century and into the first decade or two of the 20th century, bicycle development in the US basically ceased after that. US manufacturers never really made it past single speed balloon tire bikes with coaster brakes. The US didn't really discover lightweight derailleur bikes until the 2nd Bike Boom of the 1970s, at which point these bikes or their components were being imported first from Europe, then from Japan, then finally from China.

[buddybikes]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

That's an odd turn of phrase, as the types of bikes we typically discuss here (multi-geared lightweights, MTBs, etc.) were never made in the US in any meaningful way to start with. While the US was a leader in bicycle production at the end of the 19th century and into the first decade or two of the 20th century, bicycle development in the US basically ceased after that. US manufacturers never really made it past single speed balloon tire bikes with coaster brakes. The US didn't really discover lightweight derailleur bikes until the 2nd Bike Boom of the 1970s, at which point these bikes or their components were being imported first from Europe, then from Japan, then finally from China.

Tend to disagree - Columbia (MA), Schwinn, Huffy et others were made in US in 70's.

[unterhausen]

Originally Posted by buddybikes

Tend to disagree - Columbia (MA), Schwinn, Huffy et others were made in US in 70's.

Schwinn made paramounts, but their other bikes were BSO's just like the BSO's from Huffy, AMF, Columbia etc. Granted, the Varsity was almost a real bike. But my back still twinges when I think about putting them on a storage hook at the shop I worked at. And yes, I'm glossing over some of their other models, but they sold so few of those they are mostly a curiosity. I always like to remember that at the end, the price of a Varsity was about $1000 adjusted for inflation. Their Japanese bikes were much nicer and about the same price.

Schwinn tried to make nice mid-range bikes in the U.S., but it took them under.

Trek was pretty much alone in the '70s trying to make affordable enthusiast bikes in the U.S., but quickly off-shored as the Burkes took over day to day management from Bevil Hogg.

I forgot about Ross, they made some decent bikes for a while after a history of making BSO's

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by buddybikes

Tend to disagree - Columbia (MA), Schwinn, Huffy et others were made in US in 70's.

These companies made frames in the US, and they were assembled in the US, but they were largely built up with imported components. I had a Schwinn World Sport in the 1978, which was an apt name, as it was made of components from all over the world, including France, Italy, Belgium, Switzerland, Japan, etc.

When US bike companies wanted to make multi-speed drivetrains, they had to go to Europe, then Japan, to get drivetrain components. As far as I know, there have been no derailleur drivetrains mass produced in the US, and only a few geared hubs (and these had disappeared by the 1960s).

In the 1970s, there were indeed a number of US brands, such as the ones you mention, and others like Ross, Murray and Raleigh. But other than Schwinn Paramount, these were mid-quality at best. For high performance bikes, you had to go to offshore brands like Bianchi, Frejus, Gitane, Motobecane, Puch, Peugeot. High performance US brands didn't start to emerge until the 1980s, but they were still competing against the established European brands and the new Japanese brands. By the time US brands were taking over the the high end US market, they were already moving frame production to Asia.

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

I wonder if people have actually read the article. The article has no issue with the quality of products made in China (including bicycles). Instead, the issues with products made far from their end customers include:

• Long production lead times,
• Prone to supply chain disruptions
• Issues related to shipping (costs, environmental impact, additional supply chain issues).
• Tariffs
• Etc.

I hadn’t yet read it when I posted my comment, which was directed mainly toward the earlier comments in the thread. I don’t think I described anything untrue, though.

But agree—nothing the author said was terribly surprising or controversial IMO. I’m also not sure what “in a meaningful way” means—is mass market/big brand manufacturing the only “meaningful” manufacturing?

The reality seems to be that bike manufacturing is highly labor intensive and largely follows one of two paths: 1) relatively inexpensive mass market; and 2) higher end more specialized/niche. The economic realities of the labor market mean that 1) is really difficult to do in the US.

For my part I have five bikes:
2 Taiwan (AL, carbon)
1 Colorado (AL) — out of business (this company did create an automated carbon production line)
1 Wisconsin (steel) — out of business
1 England (steel)

[buddybikes]

I was commenting on manufacturing of bicycles (kids, adults, junk, etc) which made up 90% of the sales.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

That's an odd turn of phrase, as the types of bikes we typically discuss here (multi-geared lightweights, MTBs, etc.) were never made in the US in any meaningful way to start with. While the US was a leader in bicycle production at the end of the 19th century and into the first decade or two of the 20th century, bicycle development in the US basically ceased after that. US manufacturers never really made it past single speed balloon tire bikes with coaster brakes. The US didn't really discover lightweight derailleur bikes until the 2nd Bike Boom of the 1970s, at which point these bikes or their components were being imported first from Europe, then from Japan, then finally from China.

I've got to disagree with you here. I've owned several bonded aluminum and OCLV carbon Trek's that were made in the USA (of course, now they aren't).

I read this on weightweenies wrt carbon rims (I would think the same can be applied to carbon frames):

The biggest variable here is the resins that are used. That's why (generally speaking) you often see better quality parts with lower voids and more consistency coming from Asia than the US and Europe: higher VOC resins that are more consistent (and not legal to use in the US). You will never see a Chinese rim relying on rim tape to keep it from exploding due to voids in the rim bed...

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by MikeD

I've got to disagree with you here. I've owned several bonded aluminum and OCLV carbon Trek's that were made in the USA (of course, now they aren't).

Well, it really comes down to how you define "made in the USA". Every time the subject of "made in the USA" bikes comes up, several posters will declare their bikes are "made in the USA", but this often relies on a generous definition of what "made in USA" means.

Does it mean final assembly in the USA?

Does it mean the majority of the value was added in the USA?

OCLV carbon frames were originally made in the USA - but were the raw material sourced in the USA? Probably not - most raw carbon fiber comes from Asia. When you add up the entire value of a Trek OCLV bike (frame, wheels, drivetrain, cockpit, etc.) how much of the final value was added in the USA? If it less than half, then how can you claim it was "made in the USA"?

The components on all my bikes were almost entirely sourced off-shore. But just considering the frames along, I have only one frame that was 100% made in the USA: It is Tom Teesdale custom frame that was welded up in Iowa from True Temper steel tubes made in a mill in Mississippi. I have another frame that was brazed together in Michigan, but it uses steel tubes that came from Italy. The majority of the value of this second frame was added in the USA, so I guess you could label it "made in USA".

Can any bike be 100% made in the USA today? Probably not. You can probably get a frame completely sourced from the USA. And the wheels could also probably be completely sourced from the USA, if you picked the right components. You might even get USA made bottom brackets and cranks. But it would have to be single speed - no multi-gear drivetrains come from the USA. You may have some problems sourcing cockpit components from the USA. Although bicycle chains are not made in the USA, since the bike would be a single speed you might be able to use a 1/2" industrial chain. But one part you definitely won't be able to source from the USA are tires.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Well, it really comes down to how you define "made in the USA". Every time the subject of "made in the USA" bikes comes up, several posters will declare their bikes are "made in the USA", but this often relies on a generous definition of what "made in USA" means.

Does it mean final assembly in the USA?

Does it mean the majority of the value was added in the USA?

OCLV carbon frames were originally made in the USA - but were the raw material sourced in the USA? Probably not - most raw carbon fiber comes from Asia. When you add up the entire value of a Trek OCLV bike (frame, wheels, drivetrain, cockpit, etc.) how much of the final value was added in the USA? If it less than half, then how can you claim it was "made in the USA"?

The components on all my bikes were almost entirely sourced off-shore. But just considering the frames along, I have only one frame that was 100% made in the USA: It is Tom Teesdale custom frame that was welded up in Iowa from True Temper steel tubes made in a mill in Mississippi. I have another frame that was brazed together in Michigan, but it uses steel tubes that came from Italy. The majority of the value of this second frame was added in the USA, so I guess you could label it "made in USA".

Can any bike be 100% made in the USA today? Probably not. You can probably get a frame completely sourced from the USA. And the wheels could also probably be completely sourced from the USA, if you picked the right components. You might even get USA made bottom brackets and cranks. But it would have to be single speed - no multi-gear drivetrains come from the USA. You may have some problems sourcing cockpit components from the USA. Although bicycle chains are not made in the USA, since the bike would be a single speed you might be able to use a 1/2" industrial chain. But one part you definitely won't be able to source from the USA are tires.

If you want to argue that, what's a bicycle company, Shimano or Trek? I'd say there's more engineering and manufacturing effort in the components than in the frame. Most people with some technical skills can assemble a bicycle. If Shimano wanted, they could easy make frames and offer a complete bicycle. Not sure why they don't.

[unterhausen]

I think that the '60s and '70s bikes made by Huffy, AMF and the like had U.S. made components on them for the most part. The U.S. was pretty good at stamping steel, and the cranks were made in Ashtabula Oh.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I think that the '60s and '70s bikes made by Huffy, AMF and the like had U.S. made components on them for the most part. The U.S. was pretty good at stamping steel, and the cranks were made in Ashtabula Oh.

And all those electro-forged Schwinn Varsities.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I think that the '60s and '70s bikes made by Huffy, AMF and the like had U.S. made components on them for the most part. The U.S. was pretty good at stamping steel, and the cranks were made in Ashtabula Oh.

Yes, absolutely. In addition to the Ashtibula cranks, they also had Bendix coaster brake hubs, chrome plated steel rims with galvanized straight steel spokes, and spring saddles. I don't know when they stopped, but surely the balloon tires in the '30s and '40s were US made as well. But these US made bikes didn't resemble the high end racing and touring bikes available in Europe in the '60s and '70s - the US made bikes more closely resembled today's Dutch city bikes. So if we talk about bicycle manufacturing "returning" to the US, we're really talking about the return of "Dutch" city bikes.