“Roundabouts:” Better for the Environment. But Better for Cyclists?

[XXtwindad]

Read an interesting article about roundabouts in the NYT recently. It seems that there are definite environmental benefits to them, as well as measurable safety improvements. But does it hold true for cyclists as well?

I’m not so sure. Local East Bay cycling legend Joe Shami was killed at a roundabout. https://forums.thepaceline.net/showt...ighlight=Shami

In my own experiences, the “who’s got next” aspect of roundabouts make them
a little more dangerous - albeit at a much slower speed, which can’t be discounted.


https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/20/c...s-driving.html

Carmel, a city of 102,000 north of Indianapolis, has 140 roundabouts, with over a dozen still to come. No American city has more. The main reason is safety; compared with regular intersections, roundabouts significantly reduce injuries and deaths.

But there’s also a climate benefit.

Because modern roundabouts don’t have red lights where cars sit and idle, they don’t burn as much gasoline. While there are few studies, the former city engineer for Carmel, Mike McBride, estimates that each roundabout saves about 20,000 gallons of fuel annually, which means the cars of Carmel emit many fewer tons of planet-heating carbon emissions each year. And U.S. highway officials broadly agree that roundabouts reduce tailpipe emissions.

Modern roundabouts, by comparison, are compact, with lower speed limits, traffic yields rather than stops and generally fewer lanes. Unlike traffic circles where cars enter at 90-degree angles, traffic flows into modern roundabouts at a smaller angle, drastically cutting the chances of getting T-boned. Well-designed ones are also more friendly to pedestrians and cyclists.

[jkbrwn]

Having grown up in England and hence having a lot of experience navigating roundabouts (hint: they're everywhere!) I'd much rather cycle through a roundabout than a stop sign. A stop sign is often placed on a straight road where, if someone wants to, they can just drive straight through it without slowing down. One cannot just drive straight over a roundabout. Traffic moves more slowly through them. The issue in my experience is that, due to their scarcity, many American drivers have literally no idea how to navigate a roundabout properly. The fact that roundabouts have signs on them directing drivers how to navigate them makes that abundantly clear.

[ripvanrando]

I like the little round abouts in Europe.

The circles or rotaries in the USA? NFW on a bike.

[EB]

"Modern roundabout" is the term for these in the US. Traffic enters the circle parallel to the direction of flow, and traffic within the circle has the right-of-way. These are designed to slow traffic down while maximizing throughput. They increase motorist safety as well since they slow down traffic and eliminate the need for motorists to look multiple directions, as at an intersection. They are generally great for cyclists and pedestrians, as long as they are designed correctly.

"Rotaries" are the old-school variety where traffic enters the circle perpendicular to the flow of traffic, and entering traffic has the right of way. These are insanely dangerous - think Arc De Triomphe in Paris. I think most places are phasing these out.

[bigbill]

Liked them in Italy, my experiences have varied here in the US. For cyclists, IMO, it's more about the attitude of the drivers entering the circle.

[72gmc]

I'm seeing more roundabouts in smaller towns where the highway is also Main Street, so a roundabout can slow traffic, provide a chance to cross the highway, and avoid an actual light. I don't see much facilitation beyond paint for pedestrians and cyclists. I would hop off and walk my bike via the crosswalks if I came to one of these.

[OtayBW]

I've avoided certain stop sign intersections for years because they were just NUTZ - even with good riding skills. They popped a couple of roundabouts in there in the last few years, and presto! Problem solved. I feel that I can control the traffic and lane position much better. On balance, they work for me.

[chrisroph]

I like them generally if designed right but have had numb nuts, usually pickup drivers, not want to yield to a road monkey in lycra on a bike with the right of way. That attitude is not restricted to roundabouts of course.

[verticaldoug]

as jkbrwn has said, ' In England, these are everywhere and these are great.'
In London, I have no issues on roundabouts, but then everyone knows how to drive the circle.

In the US, most people don't know what to do, and it is a mess.

[benb]

I'm all for a roundabout.

We have one I rode through for years, it is now changed to lights and is multiple lanes wide. But almost everyone has to make multiple lane changes to get into the correct lane to get through it and get to your desired exit.

It's terrifying to bike through the lights now instead of the old rotary. It feels WAY more dangerous as the cars are playing drag race and lane change as they get frustrated that they got stuck at a light.

They're especially better for cyclists cause we're at our most vulnerable starting from a stop or waiting stopped, especially with clip in pedals. The Roundabout keeps us moving and able to use our superior maneuverability and size.

My opinion is exactly the same on a motorcycle too, the roundabout feels safer on 2 wheels even with a motor. Even though you can out accelerate almost any car from a stop it's still a vulnerable position, especially when you bring in weather, etc..

[skitlets]

Originally Posted by benb

I'm all for a roundabout.

We have one I rode through for years, it is now changed to lights and is multiple lanes wide. But almost everyone has to make multiple lane changes to get into the correct lane to get through it and get to your desired exit.

It's terrifying to bike through the lights now instead of the old rotary. It feels WAY more dangerous as the cars are playing drag race and lane change as they get frustrated that they got stuck at a light.

They're especially better for cyclists cause we're at our most vulnerable starting from a stop or waiting stopped, especially with clip in pedals. The Roundabout keeps us moving and able to use our superior maneuverability and size.

My opinion is exactly the same on a motorcycle too, the roundabout feels safer on 2 wheels even with a motor. Even though you can out accelerate almost any car from a stop it's still a vulnerable position, especially when you bring in weather, etc..

All the roundabouts in DC are like this and it's the worst combination of road design.

[Dead Man]

lights at a traffic circle? gross

the only traffic circle i know of that isnt "yield" all around is the one at Caesar Chavez and Glisan in portland, and its basically a disaster. i wouldnt be surprised if there have been more accidents there than would be with a regular 4 way stop. you have to make lane changes in it, nobody is ever really sure which lane does what until it does it, and between the people running the stop sign and trying to zip into the lane they need and and the people who have no clue who has right o way where, its not fun to get through on a bike when traffic is remotely heavy

otherwise, i love traffic circles in general, in car or on bike. i dont see how the regular yield/one lane circles could be any more hazardous to cyclists than a stop sign... which i feel is probably the least safe way to cross lanes of traffic on a bike

[cyat.es]

Pittsburgh just went on a tear installing mini-rotaries in place of stop signs to create what they call "neighborways". BikePGH championed these as a cyclist safety campaign.

My house is at one of these "rotar-ized" intersections, and from my perch overlooking it I've seen no abatement to the chaos below. Drivers don't know what to do when they approach it, so despite still having stop signs, most blow through, often going the wrong direction. Until the most recent round of construction, speeds haven't slowed… until last week when they removed 6" of pavement to resurface. Now it's like a humungous inverted speed bump and it's glorious.

https://imgur.com/a/TS9geTq

[reuben]

Originally Posted by skitlets

All the roundabouts in DC are like this and it's the worst combination of road design.

Plus, DC has square or rectangular roundabouts, if you can imagine such a thing.

I don't live in DC, but my success rate at getting in the correct lane to make the correct turn is very low.

[berserk87]

Roundabouts are great for drivers. In my area, they can be terrifying for cyclists. I've almost been hit about a half-dozen times in them. Had the same for a friend I was riding with, who missed being hit by inches.

Some of the problem seems to be that a cyclist can visually get "lost" to a driver, in the A-pillar to the left of the windshield, and some of it appears to be simple driver inattention. At least 2 of my close calls were due to drivers that didn't look left at all and proceeded into the roundabout at a relatively high speed.

Now when I am in a roundabout while riding, I slow down a lot if I see a car approaching. That buys me time to brake if they disregard me and proceed into the roundabout. I realize that if I'm in the roundabout before an oncoming car, I have the right-of-way, but that right-of-way doesn't save me from injury. Navigating roundabouts seems to require increased awareness.