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#31
11-08-2021, 11:15 AM
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I never thought that people actually rode with the chain grease from the factory. Just feeling the chain would let you know it is sticky as heck and not good for anything except moisture prevention.
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#32
11-08-2021, 11:21 AM
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I prefer to use Wipperman-Connex chains on my Campy 10 drivetrains. I decided to ask Wipperman for their recommendations with regard to a fresh, new chain from the factory. Their product manager, Marcel Stiens, replied to me directly and told me that I can ride on the factory fresh chain for a few hundred miles without hesitation, before my usual chain maintenance routine kicks in. I've had no problems with this procedure.
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#33
11-08-2021, 04:34 PM
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I hadn't thought much about it (but had heard Adam trumpeting on about it previously) until in the thread I posted about the Silca SS drip lube, where someone cited Shimano's tech guy stating the grease shouldn't be removed. It's pretty intuitive to anyone that has handled a new chain that the factory grease on a chain really isn't suited to anything except maybe the most meticulously clean indoor track, the data obviously backs it up. Quote:
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And that's ignoring how difficult it can be to simply source parts right now. Honestly I don't see the problem in challenging your preconceived notions of what is appropriate in terms of drivetrain maintenance, but maybe I've been drinking the kool aid and just enjoy not having to replace stuff too often. What I've found is a lot of people aren't checking their chain wear so the whole discussion becomes a bit abstract. If you check your chain and replace at 0.5, even good chains are not that expensive - if you can get your hands on one - and you're not sacrificing drivetrain. If you don't ride the k's I do understand all of this is just noise. Last edited by jimoots; 11-08-2021 at 04:42 PM.
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#35
11-08-2021, 04:46 PM
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So, where does this net out as to whether we should even still "break in" a new chain with the factory grease still on it (which is to say, riding the new chain for 100 or thereabout miles to get all of the interior burrs or doodads that might be within, smoothed over)?
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#36
11-08-2021, 04:47 PM
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pretty sure you could get someone to change their political party or religion before you could talk them into a different chain maintenance procedure...
if the people that make chains say leave their goop on for a few miles, that's good enough for me. but there will probably be some conspiracy-type that says they do that just so your chain wears out prematurely and you'll have to buy another sooner...lol.
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#37
11-08-2021, 04:48 PM
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Um, the chart in post 26 shows that the factory grease+NFS outperforms NFS (by a small margin with no error bars given)
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#38
11-08-2021, 04:53 PM
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No that's not how the chart should be read. To get 25,000km out of a SS treated chain, you would be riding in dry weather and reapplying at appropriate intervals. If you are riding in bad weather it would be somewhere between 5000-25000km. The general gist of Adam's testing is he puts the chains through blocks of riding - as indicated by the columns - measuring wear. The test stops when they hit the chain hits the wear limit. 25,000km is an extrapolation of the first no contamination block, whereas 5,452 is an extrapolation of the first five blocks. It depends what conditions you ride in and how often you clean and lube your chain as to where you land between those two figures. Quote:
Getting it off ASAP minimises chain contamination too, reduces the amount of solvent or whatever degreasing process you use, etc etc etc. Quote:
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A local shop owner privately told me he wasn't interested in stocking wax based lubes as he makes decent coin out of consumables and servicing. Last edited by jimoots; 11-08-2021 at 04:56 PM.
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#39
11-08-2021, 05:15 PM
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#40
11-08-2021, 05:23 PM
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I've never had issue with factory lubes attracting too much dirt, but I do wipe the chain off after installation (as well as my hands!).
And I've always enjoyed the generous first service interval length afforded by the factory lubes, which do vary by chain brand and by chain vintage it seems. Also I've never noticed much lube residue on my sprockets after the time for a first lubing comes around, at which time the solvent-rich lubes that I prefer mostly take over by washing the factory lube out and onto the terrycloth shop rag. So it just seems like much ado about nothing, and the factory lube is just their best attempt at making the end-user feel that their chain works properly, quietly and so on, so as to make a best impression. I've serviced bikes that had yet to have their original chain serviced at all, and the factory lube did surprisingly well at not letting the chain become chirpy. This after perhaps one to two years and some hundreds of miles. This being the situation that the factory must have seen as the best argument for the relatively long-interval lube being applied to their new chains. I never saw and can't really imagine the factory lube causing chain suck or any other problem. The preservative effect would seem to apply much more to the chain having being placed into service than to preserving it for shipping (it having been a loooong time since I've seen premium chains or freewheels arriving in brown paper). The heavy lube no doubt is good/best for preventing rust on bikes left outside and/or put away wet, which is what happens often enough in the real world. But yeah, I can see where some factory lubes might seem a bit too thick in viscosity for racing use.
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#41
11-08-2021, 05:43 PM
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I wonder if the majority of us aren't riding in the Blocks 2, 4, and 6 in ZFC testing, and that's why most half decent lubes are getting us pretty good life? I don't ride my Nagasawa, Firefly, or Strong intentionally in the rain, I ride the Bob Jackson because it has fenders and that makes a yuge difference in how much schmutz ends up on the drivetrain. And even that bike I'm not going out in pouring rain.
My MTB sees the worst conditions, plus, I run a 26T chainring so it has the maximum tension in the chain of all my bikes, so highest wear potential. I've owned it six years and it was two years old (though not used much) when I bought it. It has a SRAM 1x11 XX1 drivetrain, the one with the cassette that has the first ten cogs machined from one piece of steel, and the 42T cog is aluminum and riveted on. This is an almost $400 cassette retail and street price is about $330. I'm motivated to keep it going as long as possible! I have about 4,000 miles on the bike in 6 years. I'm on the second XX1 chain and the cassette is original, except for the large Al cog which has been replaced with an aftermarket one. Second chain gets a wipe and Squirt after each ride and isn't close to the 0.5mm wear point. That seems like acceptable performance to me. The first 4 oz. bottle of Squirt I had lasted me just shy of two years and that's applying it to seven bikes getting 5,700 miles last year and over 4,100 miles this year so far. I do try to get the factory grease off the chains to begin with, but not to the extent some of the posters to these two recent threads go to. I can see that if you race/ride in the mud as someone posted, or are racing and are going for the last watt, the full monte ritual makes sense.
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#42
11-08-2021, 05:45 PM
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   Put me in the "a clean chain and any lube is good" camp..... 
__________________
2003 CSi / Legend Ti / Seven 622 SLX
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#43
11-08-2021, 06:30 PM
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#45
11-08-2021, 07:02 PM
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Full test protocol here: https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/w...-Protocol-.pdf With the factory lube it looks like there were two tests, one with the factory lube only (which ended at 1000km as in the charts) and one topped up with NFS every ~300km which as Josh noted apparently helped to clear some of the contamination. It is also worth noting this is an open source protocol, i.e. Adam has designed it and made it all very public. As Josh noted here and in other threads he has full confidence in the repeatability. As is the inclination around these parts it is tempting not actually read or understand and then attempt to poke holes in it, but Adam is one of the 'good guys' and is really striving for some semblance of industry agreement on stuff like friction and wear tests. What that nets out is better information for customer, less dogma and a better riding experience for everyone. Last edited by jimoots; 11-08-2021 at 07:05 PM.
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