On Female Frame Builders…

[SlowPokePete]

I like Moth Attack.

http://www.mothattack.com

SPP

[Kingson]

i think it was a GCN video that did a tour of the Look factory in tunisia, and there were a few women laying up the carbon.
actually, i think it was only women laying up the carbon

[prototoast]

Originally Posted by Kingson

i think it was a GCN video that did a tour of the Look factory in tunisia, and there were a few women laying up the carbon.
actually, i think it was only women laying up the carbon

Carbon fiber fabrication is largely textile work--an industry that has long employed mostly women. Steel fabrication draws from more heavy industrial, which has historically been a more male dominated industry. So it's not too surprising that in today's bicycle industry, these trends continue.

[XXtwindad]

Originally Posted by PurpleBikeChick

In deciding to go custom, I intentionally searched for women since few/none were on lists I used. None of the small number of women frame builders I found had bikes that spoke to me, so I went with John Caletti.

I assumed that this gender disparity reflects, at least in part, the same reasons that I see so many fewer female serious/dedicated cyclists where I live. (As well as the very apt statement about “therein lies the rub”)

Really curious why this was (without naming the builders) if you feel like sharing. I think part of the hurdle female frame builders have to overcome is that customers intuitively seek builders that reflect who they are.

[William]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

I think part of the hurdle female frame builders have to overcome is that customers intuitively seek builders that reflect who they are.

That can be true of any product people buy, that's pretty much what advertising is all about. In regards to bike buying that could also reflect that more men per capita buy and ride. When I was racing, and I think it still holds true, the men's fields were always much larger than the women's fields. I think this just reflects the fact that more men are drawn to and involved in the sport in general.

I honestly think most people don't decide to buy/have a frame built on the sole criteria of whether it's built buy a man or a women. I think it boils down to whether the build quality and style/aesthetic speaks to you...and the pricing is comfortable for your wallet. If someone decided to pass on a particular builder it doesn't mean it's a slight, it just means another builders wares fit their decision process better (price, turn around, options, and aesthetics, etc...).








W.

[HenryA]

Originally Posted by XXtwindad

Really curious why this was (without naming the builders) if you feel like sharing. I think part of the hurdle female frame builders have to overcome is that customers intuitively seek builders that reflect who they are.

I can’t imagine this being correct. ^^^^^^^^^^

Although I will say that what I look for in a builder would start with the finished product and whether that product is congruous with my views of proper design, building, fit, finish and craft in general. But I have a strong handwork background that leads me to think I know something. So I want a bike that fits those criteria and don’t care too much about who builds it, assuming proper business practices.

I will say that a couple of years ago I did not buy a bike because of the shop’s social media rants. Had no doubts about the quality of the product but did have doubts about the judgement and business practices of the shop. It was a high end purchase that did not happen and did not matter in the big scheme of things since the que to get a bike from them was long and full.

[Chris]

I’m headed over to the hair salon forums to see if there is similar outrage that 90.8% of hair stylists (admittedly a 2020 statistic) are females.

As long as there isn’t a concerted effort to prevent people of different genders in pursuing careers in particular industries, I just don’t understand the gnashing of teeth and tearing of robes over it. As a friend of mine on here is prone to say…water finds its own level.

Granted, there is that whole tampon expense…

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m headed over to the hair salon forums to see if there is similar outrage that 90.8% of hair stylists (admittedly a 2020 statistic) are females.

As long as there isn’t a concerted effort to prevent people of different genders in pursuing careers in particular industries, I just don’t understand the gnashing of teeth and tearing of robes over it. As a friend of mine on here is prone to say…water finds its own level.

Maybe I shouldn't continue to tread these waters but ... It's a bit lazy to conclude that the reason a particular group of people tend to end up in certain vocations is because that's what they always really dreamed of doing. For example, I've noticed that the cleaning staff in my office buildings I've worked in are mostly immigrants. Am I to conclude that cleaning office buildings is what these people have wanted to do more than anything else? There is a long history of pushing girls towards pink collar jobs and away from blue and white collar jobs (and just the opposite for boys), so it should not be surprising if there are more women hair stylists then men.

[nmrt]

water does indeed finds it's own level.
ahh...if only people behaved as water, public policy would be a never heard of term.

Originally Posted by Chris

I’m headed over to the hair salon forums to see if there is similar outrage that 90.8% of hair stylists (admittedly a 2020 statistic) are females.

As long as there isn’t a concerted effort to prevent people of different genders in pursuing careers in particular industries, I just don’t understand the gnashing of teeth and tearing of robes over it. As a friend of mine on here is prone to say…water finds its own level.

Granted, there is that whole tampon expense…

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Maybe I shouldn't continue to tread these waters but ... It's a bit lazy to conclude that the reason a particular group of people tend to end up in certain vocations is because that's what they always really dreamed of doing. For example, I've noticed that the cleaning staff in my office buildings I've worked in are mostly immigrants. Am I to conclude that cleaning office buildings is what these people have wanted to do more than anything else? There is a long history of pushing girls towards pink collar jobs and away from blue and white collar jobs (and just the opposite for boys), so it should not be surprising if there are more women hair stylists then men.

There’s a difference between opportunity vs discrimination. Admittedly, in the housekeeping positions, that can be a real grey area, but, education, language skills and labor skills play a role. Alas, we’re not really talking about that in this thread. I just don’t see the barriers, other than preferential on the job-seeker’s part, as being in some way discriminatory on the basis of gender here. That and the tampon cost of course.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by Chris

There’s a difference between opportunity vs discrimination. Admittedly, in the housekeeping positions, that can be a real grey area, but, education, language skills and labor skills play a role. Alas, we’re not really talking about that in this thread. I just don’t see the barriers, other than preferential on the job-seeker’s part, as being in some way discriminatory on the basis of gender here. That and the tampon cost of course.

Did you not read joevers post about how women in the bicycle industry are treated?

[HenryA]

Asking to speak to a mechanic when you have a mechanical question is pretty rational. That a woman answered the phone has nothing to do with the question being asked. Unless everywhere you look all you see is discrimination and assume that if a guy answered the phone people would not ask to speak with the mechanic but talk to the answering guy ‘cause he’s a guy. That is pretty farfetched.

I called to get a price on some trusses for my new shop recently. Called three places, got 2 guys and 1 woman. The woman was quite competent, the guys were knuckle heads. In all 3 calls I simply asked to speak with someone about ordering some trusses.

This whole deal where everything is racist/sexist/somethingist is poison to civil society. It also infantilizes the alleged “victims”. As if they can’t stand up for themselves.

[jamesdak]

Originally Posted by henrya

asking to speak to a mechanic when you have a mechanical question is pretty rational. That a woman answered the phone has nothing to do with the question being asked. Unless everywhere you look all you see is discrimination and assume that if a guy answered the phone people would not ask to speak with the mechanic but talk to the answering guy ‘cause he’s a guy. That is pretty farfetched.

I called to get a price on some trusses for my new shop recently. Called three places, got 2 guys and 1 woman. The woman was quite competent, the guys were knuckle heads. In all 3 calls i simply asked to speak with someone about ordering some trusses.

This whole deal where everything is racist/sexist/somethingist is poison to civil society. It also infantilizes the alleged “victims”. As if they can’t stand up for themselves.

amen!!

[joevers]

Originally Posted by HenryA

Unless everywhere you look all you see is discrimination and assume that if a guy answered the phone people would not ask to speak with the mechanic but talk to the answering guy ‘cause he’s a guy. That is pretty farfetched.

I literally work at a bike shop full time with women and I'm telling you this happens consistently. It's farfetched to you because it doesn't happen to you.

[HenryA]

What are the women mechanics doing answering the phone? They should be in the back workin’ on bikes.