What’s on your coffee bench?

[stackie]

Blonding signifies the end of your shot. You’re moving from extracting yummy sweet goodness to thin bitterness. So as soon as that shot starts to blond, stop!

Jon

[echappist]

How would you recommend delaying it as much as possible? I've tried to play around with the pre-infusion and delay btwn pre-infusion and extraction, but i don't think i'm getting anywhere.

Or perhaps a new Eureka Mignon or Ceado would solve my issues

[Marcovelo]

Originally Posted by echappist

How would you recommend delaying it as much as possible? I've tried to play around with the pre-infusion and delay btwn pre-infusion and extraction, but i don't think i'm getting anywhere.

Or perhaps a new Eureka Mignon or Ceado would solve my issues

The so-called golden rule is ~2oz (i.e., double shot) in ~20 secs with about ~19g coffee. (All are rough values). Lots of room for variation here, but this serves as a good place to begin.

To delay the blonding you have to find a different balance between three variables: amount of coffee, tamp pressure, fineness of grind as well as time of extraction. This, then, is a multi-variable equation in which the value of any variable is dependent on the values of the others.

So, assuming something around 20 secs. as constant (or 25, or whatever): If it is blonding before 20 secs, try either more tamp pressure or slightly more coffee or a slightly finer grind.

A digital scale will help you control for one variable (amount of coffee) so that you only have two to finagle with: tamp pressure and fineness. I would begin with these.

It is worth remembering that all this is to get something that tastes good to you. So find a solution that pleases you. Then you might explore the edges of that solution to see if something tastes better.

[stackie]

Nicely explained.

I’d only add to do the Weiss distribution technique. Take a single serve yogurt container and cut it to fit into your PF basket. After you’ve ground into your basket, put the yogurt container into the basket to keep grounds from falling out and stir with a dissecting tool or something similar. It really does make a difference.

Also, maybe weigh your coffee after you grind to ensure that you are really getting your desired weight, not more or less due to grinder retention.

Jon

[livingminimal]

These last few posts are a good reminder that the grinder is forever and always, the most important part of the tool-equation.

I'll also say that when I started to think of timing as "too short is too sour and too long is too bitter" everything just really started to click for me.

[echappist]

That was very informative; thanks to all who chimed in

Out of curiosity, should the crema be mainly the “blonding”? That’s what i’ve always believed, but i seem to be wrong on the subject

Also for those with fancier machines, have you ever gotten a decent single espresso on your machine?

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by echappist

That was very informative; thanks to all who chimed in

Out of curiosity, should the crema be mainly the “blonding”? That’s what i’ve always believed, but i seem to be wrong on the subject

Also for those with fancier machines, have you ever gotten a decent single espresso on your machine?

There's a recent video on the Whole Latte Love YouTube channel of someone pulling a correct single but I never have.

[stackie]

Pulling a decent single is hard. Most baristas just brew a double and throw half away. Hard enough to get a great double!

Jon

[echappist]

and more handwringing time

Kompak K3
Eureka Mignon (the grey market item from Italy)
Quamar M80
Ceado E6P

all doserless, all except the M80 are stepless. Thoughts on which would be best for single-dosing?

[stackie]

My only input on that was I had a compak before my monolith. Mazzer quality at a slightly better price point.

Denis of Kafatech suggests a couple of mists of water on beans before grinding then shake them up and pour into grinder. Decreases static and restrained grounds. I would think might be a good idea for any grinder really. Just don’t go crazy and put wet beans in the grinder.

Jon

[ptourkin]

Originally Posted by stackie

Nicely explained.

I’d only add to do the Weiss distribution technique. Take a single serve yogurt container and cut it to fit into your PF basket. After you’ve ground into your basket, put the yogurt container into the basket to keep grounds from falling out and stir with a dissecting tool or something similar. It really does make a difference.

Also, maybe weigh your coffee after you grind to ensure that you are really getting your desired weight, not more or less due to grinder retention.

Jon

Grabbing a yogurt today to try this. Just pulled my first shot with a bottomless and the result was good but I had spray, which I understand to come from clumping/poor tamping. The Rocky does clump.

Related: What would happen if I dosed a double into the triple basket? Can this reduce spraying from closeness to the screen or would it impact the pressure?

[echappist]

You don’t want that. Mostly runny stuff, i’d imagine. Or at least grind it on a finer setting. I did exactly this a few days ago, and the puck was a mushy mess (cf. something solid)

Also, find it interesting that the recipes differ so much

Had operated using 17g for a double, but that’s way too much coffee for a double basket on the Silvia. If i grinded finer, i get 30 g of overextracted stuff; if coarser, i can’t get it all to fit. Eventually settled on fine grind at 15.6 g, and if i get lucky, it should be 45-50 grams out. It has the blonding issue (basically the last 12 seconds or so), but tasted fine for the most part

a video on Clives stated 18-20g for a 35g “single shot”. A bit perplexing...

Also, anyone knows if the caffeine extracted depends on the mass of ground used or the total amount of fluid in cup or perhaps both?

[livingminimal]

[QUOTE=ptourkin;2450861
Related: What would happen if I dosed a double into the triple basket? Can this reduce spraying from closeness to the screen or would it impact the pressure?[/QUOTE]


youll get a fast, fast shot. Too fast. You pretty much have to 21g+a triple bottomless or you'll get a 14 second shot that is full blond and sour.

you can grind finer if you really want to try that. My experiments with that havent ever gone particularly well.

[stackie]

Caffeine extracted depends on both bean mass and extraction time. More on bean mass. Don’t go long to get caffeine. You’ll just get the bitter flavors. More caffeine? Have a second double.

If you underdose your basket the water from brew group will disrupt your puck and you will get fast underextracted shot. And a soupy puck.

Espresso dose is classically 2 oz (56 grams) from a 14 gram shot. That’s classic Italian. But we are here in the USA and are working in third and even fourth wave coffee. Just because the Italians invented espresso doesn’t mean they have it perfected. There’s always room for experimentation and improvement, especially given personal preference. I prefer a 18 gram bean dose to provide a 30 gram shot in 25-40 seconds (depending on coffee varietal) after a 25 second preinfusion. I have no blonding.

Jon

[echappist]

Originally Posted by stackie

Caffeine extracted depends on both bean mass and extraction time. More on bean mass. Don’t go long to get caffeine. You’ll just get the bitter flavors. More caffeine? Have a second double.

If you underdose your basket the water from brew group will disrupt your puck and you will get fast underextracted shot. And a soupy puck.

Espresso dose is classically 2 oz (56 grams) from a 14 gram shot. That’s classic Italian. But we are here in the USA and are working in third and even fourth wave coffee. Just because the Italians invented espresso doesn’t mean they have it perfected. There’s always room for experimentation and improvement, especially given personal preference. I prefer a 18 gram bean dose to provide a 30 gram shot in 25-40 seconds (depending on coffee varietal) after a 25 second preinfusion. I have no blonding.

Jon

impressive. I tried upping the preinfusion to 5 seconds, and coffee began leaking out. So back to 3 seconds I go. Is this something obtainable only on a fancier machine?

btw, 30 grams is about the volume of a single shot, correct? For making your latte art, do you go for slightly higher volume?