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  #46  
Old 01-25-2023, 09:57 AM
iwishiwasriding iwishiwasriding is offline
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One thing he said that resonated with me (230lbs), was that if you're a heavier person, then disc brakes will make a difference, especially since I moved to a hillier place. That's one of the reasons why I'm upgrading my bike to a disc model. Di2 upgrade is less justified...
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  #47  
Old 01-25-2023, 10:03 AM
Dave Dave is offline
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I'm really enjoying the improved ride on my disc brake frames that I get from 28-30mm tubeless tires on 23-25mm Internal width hookless rims, with pressures in 52-56psi range. I could use larger 32mm tires that would measure 34-35mm and probably an even wider Pirelli 34.

Most CURRENT rim brakes and their frames won't work with these wheel and tire sizes. If yours will, you should try it.

Last edited by Dave; 01-25-2023 at 12:18 PM.
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  #48  
Old 01-25-2023, 10:31 AM
Mark McM Mark McM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave View Post
Most rim brakes and their frames won't work with these wheel and tire sizes. If yours will, you should try it.
You mean most recent rim brakes and their frames won't work with these tires and sizes. A few decades ago, clincher tires between 28-32 on rim brake road bikes was the norm. With the development of high pressure clinchers, a lot of riders became convinced that narrow high pressure tires were better, and bike designers decided that they no longer needed to provide clearance for tire widths that had been common in the past.

In 1973, the rim brake Schwinn Varsity came standard with 32mm (1 1/4") tires that were mounted to hookless rims, and had a maximum pressure of psi. 50 years later, the latest Zipp wheels are optimized for 30mm tires, and have hookless rims with a maximum pressure of 73 psi. What's old is new again.
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  #49  
Old 01-25-2023, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster View Post
I really like this guy's other video's. The one about fore/aft saddle position particularly. I wish he hadn't gotten involved in this beating of a discussion.
Link please.
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  #50  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:02 AM
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mstateglfr mstateglfr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fa63 View Post
- He says disc wheels are heavier. It is the opposite; when you don't have to rely on the rim for braking, the wheels can be made lighter.


To me, the biggest benefit of disc brakes is that it allows running very large tires in the frame. The Specialized Cruxs of the world wouldn't exist on rim brakes.
Disc wheels do tend to be heavier. That doesnt mean they must be heavier, but they sure tend to be heavier. Take a typical wheelset for disc and rim bikes at pricepoints of $1500, $3000, and $5000- I really doubt you will find the disc wheels to be lighter.
BTLOS WRC-35 and WGX35 wheels pretty much show this. And honestly, I think the difference in weight is the front wheel of the rim brake set is 20h instead of 24h as 20h isnt even an option in disc. Regardless, the rim brake wheelset weighs less...though it is effectively a wash in my eyes.
Point is, you dont see crazy light disc wheelsets out there at most OE spec'd price points, and when you do see one, a rim wheelset would have been just as light at that pricepoint.

Why wouldnt a Crux exist without disc brakes? It would have canti posts and use cantilever, mini-V, or V-brakes.
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  #51  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:02 AM
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Davist Davist is offline
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LOL, so most of his argument is "discs are heavy", "buy used parts, they're cheaper (brakes wheels) and "I don't ride in the rain" convincing for some of us I guess...
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  #52  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:27 AM
KarlC KarlC is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philster View Post
I really like this guy's other video's. The one about fore/aft saddle position particularly. I wish he hadn't gotten involved in this beating of a discussion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lavi View Post
Link please.
Neill, is great, so smart and such a simple way of explaining things, one of the best for sure.

He has been a guest on a lot of video's and has some here also .....

https://neillsbikefit.com.au/?page_id=11

He is on here some also .....

https://www.youtube.com/@roadcyclingacademy6476

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Last edited by KarlC; 01-25-2023 at 12:12 PM.
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  #53  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:29 AM
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fourflys fourflys is offline
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this channel puts out some great content, wish I was in Neill's area for a fit..

If this video makes you stop watching the channel, I feel sorry for you.. this is one rider's, mostly, educated opinion (which is what 99% of the internet/youtube is anyway, often less educated).. take it or leave it, it's what works for him (as he points out several times)..

pretty sure Neill is headed to the realms of Grant and Jan now..
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  #54  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:31 AM
tomato coupe tomato coupe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davist View Post
LOL, so most of his argument is "discs are heavy", "buy used parts, they're cheaper (brakes wheels) and "I don't ride in the rain" convincing for some of us I guess...
That was pretty much it.
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  #55  
Old 01-25-2023, 11:40 AM
deluz deluz is offline
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All my bikes are rim brakes and that is what I personally prefer because of the simplicity, tradition and potentially lower weight.
My wife's Cannondale Synapse is disc. It is heavy for what it costs even though it has carbon wheels. There is nothing wrong with it and since she has arthritis in her hands the disc brakes and Di2 where a good choice.
One definite advantage to disc is for carbon wheels no worries about braking performance, overheating or wearing out the brake track.
If I where to get another bike it would likely be custom and rim brake but would give some thought to disc.
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  #56  
Old 01-25-2023, 12:07 PM
Spdntrxi Spdntrxi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unterhausen View Post
I'm not watching a video.

me either.. I have both and have uses for both.
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  #57  
Old 01-25-2023, 12:10 PM
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Hilltopperny Hilltopperny is offline
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Both options work and have their own merits. That being said I have been accumulating rim brake bikes over the past year.

I like rim brake road bikes and even have a cx bike with mini v's. They all ride great and even at 210 lbs they never cease to work. I even have a bike with textured brake track carbon wheels.

It is all good stuff at this stage and the disc stuff is great too. I prefer mechanical calipers for ease of maintenance on most of my disc bikes. My trail mtbs get hydros because they stop me with a bit more ease in situations where I need them too, but have run Paul Klampers on my xc bike and they worked well.

All in all I appreciate them both. I am not looking to buy the newest high end race/endurance/whatever bike these days as the costs have gone bonkers imho. Now if they stop producing rim brake wheels then I will start shouting at the clouds!

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  #58  
Old 01-25-2023, 12:26 PM
tomato coupe tomato coupe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carlucci1106 View Post
30 years from now, we'll have the same reaction when we get on our steel rim brake bicycles.
In all likelihood, in 30 years steel rim brake bicycles will be viewed as curiosities more than anything, because most of the people that presently ride them will no longer be around.
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  #59  
Old 01-25-2023, 12:44 PM
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krooj krooj is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fa63 View Post
- I ride in the wet and mud (gravel) frequently and brake pad contamination is not as big an issue as he made it out to be. On the other hand, I have done rides in the wet on rim brakes and carbon wheels and damaged the brake track because some grit got stuck in the brake pads and did a number on the rims.
The contamination thing must come from some dandies that think their brakes should look, sound, and feel like they do from the showroom floor. Cars also largely use disc brakes so try to think of the pad contamination that occurs there... hmmmm....

Pad scrubbing is a thing. Each type of brake system comes with its positives and negatives, and from where I stand you can learn to be just as good with either system (on the road). Rim brakes have way better modulation and give you the ability to confidently scrub speed, where discs aren't treating a structural component as a wear item. Pros/cons.
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  #60  
Old 01-25-2023, 01:44 PM
dddd dddd is online now
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I think that mstateglfr makes a good point about comparing rim-vs.-disc weights at the same price point, otherwise the arguments turn vague.

Speaking of price points:
At the really lower end, where flimsy suspension forks might still be used with either brake type, the tendency for the steering to pull sharply to the left when a front disc brake is applied can be enough to steer a sudden-braking rider right off of the trail!
This explains why a disc-brake fork needs so much added flex resistance built in, with it's own effect on a bike's compliance.
The same fatter tires that tended to encourage use of disc brakes help negate the added fork stiffness, but you'll need MUCH plumper tires to exceed the overall compliance of a similar rim-braked bike if the build priorities, weight and and price point are kept about the same.
...But the weight won't be the same at the same price point, not until there are no rim-braked bikes left on the market with which to compare!

I marvel at how good the V-brakes on my $40 (used) Schwinn department-store hybrid are. With little setup fussing, and with no tendency toward twisting the suspension fork having lowers built entirely from steel sheet (ok, the dropouts actually appear to be plugged-in alloy forgings).
I added much fatter 2.9x2.1" tires, and the V-brakes had no issues with clearance. Yeah, kind of needed the single front brake booster to realize GREAT braking because of the flimsy 24mm-diameter fork!
Loving the feel of the Hutchinson Python tires by the way, both on pavement and on dirt.
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