Why A Bike Fitter Still Chooses To Buy Rim Brake Bikes

[Pinned]

Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

Buy what you like. Vote with your wallet if you want rim brakes. We all know the pros and cons by now.

[Elefantino]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I'm not watching a video. Anyone want to summarize?

“There’s a lot more farting around with disc brakes.”

That about captures it.

[tomato coupe]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

Be thankful the disc brake fans don’t also start threads every week telling us why disc brakes are better.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

Buy what you like. Vote with your wallet if you want rim brakes. We all know the pros and cons by now.

Yes, I'm also over it. And I'm a 'rim brake guy'.

[fa63]

Some inaccurate information in that video:

- He says disc wheels are heavier. It is the opposite; when you don't have to rely on the rim for braking, the wheels can be made lighter.
- He says rotors constantly rub the pads; I have been primarily on disc brake bikes for the 4 years, and I have never had any sort of persistent pad rub, ever. Sure, sometimes they rub for a few seconds after heavy braking, but that is about it. I also work as a mechanic and don't hear our customers complaining about brake rub (and we have some picky ones).
- I ride in the wet and mud (gravel) frequently and brake pad contamination is not as big an issue as he made it out to be. On the other hand, I have done rides in the wet on rim brakes and carbon wheels and damaged the brake track because some grit got stuck in the brake pads and did a number on the rims.

To be fair, there is also plenty of accurate information in there Rim brake parts are indeed cheaper and groupsets are about a pound lighter.

To me, the biggest benefit of disc brakes is that it allows running very large tires in the frame. The Specialized Cruxs of the world wouldn't exist on rim brakes.

[Kirk007]

Originally Posted by fa63

To me, the biggest benefit of disc brakes is that it allows running very large tires in the frame. The Specialized Cruxs of the world wouldn't exist on rim brakes.

Yep, for me 30 or so and under - rim; much bigger than that and 'specially 650b - disc.

Nice to have both options.

[jimoots]

Originally Posted by fa63

- He says disc wheels are heavier. It is the opposite; when you don't have to rely on the rim for braking, the wheels can be made lighter.
.

As a unit, the wheel including disc rotor is heavier, no?

Understand that weight can be shaved off the rim, especially with hookless (and that's a polarising discussion we can have elsewhere... or just not have), but you are adding a 100-120g rotor on as well as handful more spokes which also add up in weight.

The hubs also seem to look chunkier but after a quick comparo of DT240 rim vs disc brake it's a wash, maybe the thru axle is heavier but maybe not, I don't know.

Either way, conservatively saying 120-150g (from rotor and at least 4 spokes) per wheel puts even the lightest of the disc brake wheels back into or above rim brake territory.

Which kinda makes sense, given that most disc brake bikes are half a kilo heavier than what you would've expected from a rim brake with the same spec component. Portion of that is in the wheels, the rest is in the actual caliper, cables/fluid. I would've even been tempted to say the frame has to be chunkier but 700g frames still seem to exist (they just build to a 7kg bike).

Originally Posted by fa63

- He says rotors constantly rub the pads; I have been primarily on disc brake bikes for the 4 years, and I have never had any sort of persistent pad rub, ever. Sure, sometimes they rub for a few seconds after heavy braking, but that is about it. I also work as a mechanic and don't hear our customers complaining about brake rub (and we have some picky ones).

Yeah I think if you note the point he makes... that some people don't seem to have issues with rotors rubbing constantly/intermittently/whatever-you-want-to-call-it-ly. But plenty of people I know get a disc brake bike and then proceed to complain about paying good money for a bike that needs more time on the stand... It's not like it doesn't happen.

And... I... digress.

[carlucci1106]

A few thoughts

-This horse is definitely beaten to a bloody pulp, but I'm also still eschewing the sewing machine and pining for high quality manual darning instruments

-RoadBoost axle spacing; without a doubt, going to happen. Can't fit more gears without widening it. We accepted 135/142mmTA, so we'll accept the next thing

-Everything that is new is related to disc brakes, or as a result of it.
*discs work better with thru bolts
* frames/wheels have to be stouter and resist more forces
* Aerodynamics has to be enhanced to offset the drag of the rotors (hidden cables won't do it, but it's a psychological win for people anyway)
*Wider and wider tires (larger contact patch for which to send braking power to road surface, as well as improve ride from aforementioned stouter frame/wheels)

Heard someone say that disc brake wheels can be made lighter because of the rim. Well, it hasn't happened yet. Because braking forces are resisted by an imbalance of spokes, the rotor side MUST be built up to provide durability and predictable braking. Maybe there are some sub-1200g disc wheels out there, but I would be wary of trying them, even with my puny bodyweight. I'm sorry, but whoever said this has not likely serviced hundreds of wheels, and felt the weight differences, and noticed the tension requirements across the board. The marketing "line" is that you can make them lighter. More true in theory than in practice.

As someone said, the paradigm shift is rather complete.

The point of this video, for those who want the crib notes, IS , get this:

Ride what is right for your individual needs
Rainy climate/ heavier rider/ more demanding mountain descents/weak hand grip/etc= discs are great

Light rider/fair-weather rider/rolling terrain/home mechanic/etc= rim brake might be the choice

[recarcar]

Originally Posted by Turkle

I love my disc brake bikes. But it is true that they are a major pain in the neck to work on.

My mechanical discs require constant fussing. The hydro discs are generally super reliable, but when I need them bled I have to take them to a bike shop and pay them $100+ and be without my bike for a week while they mess with toxic fluids.

I've been building up a rim brake bike and I have to tell you, I'm excited to get it out on the road and see how I like it after doing the disc thing for so long. They are so easy to set up and work on...

I also loathe working on hydros but the main thing that keeps me riding rim brake as much as disc is that discs have made, steel bikes at least, way stiffer and heavier. This is especially true where you can feel it the most, in the fork. At 145lbs and as someone who never rides to go fast, the increased stiffness is a negative and pretty obvious over longer rides. After a few days of riding a light and supple steel fork, transitioning to my (not even that porky) steel disc fork can be jarring. Definitely stops better in the rain and I have a bit more confidence in the snow though!

[callmeishmael]

It's horses for courses, in a nutshell. My only real complaint is that choice is being narrowed down - production rim brake bikes are now scarce.

There's no conspiracy involved in that; when manufacturers listed disc and rim brake models side by side, the disc brake models outsold the rim brake models by 4-5:1. As consumers voted with their wallets, so the manufacturers adapted their offerings.

That said, I do think now may be the time to pick/build up that last, high-end rim brake bike, if you're so inclined - and potentially stock up on a spare pair of shifters and carbon wheels, too. I think choice and supply will narrow appreciably in the not too distant future.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

[mcteague]

Carl Strong's Facebook post back in 2019. Of course Pursuit frames are only disk brake so there may have been a market influence there as well. The SRAM disks on my Pursuit work well and are very quiet. No complaints. Still, can't say they are a revelation over rim brakes for me.

Disc brakes are better. There, said it. #discbrakesarebetter

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by 5oakterrace

This fellow alludes to this but it is something I have never been able to understand. Maybe some folks can help me out.

I get that disc brakes are more or less better than rim brakes. No argument from me. What I do not get is that such an improvement comes at the cost of a new frame, fork, wheels, group set..... A ton of money.... And for what degree of improvement. Folks will buy what they want to spend $ on. I get that. But that is a lot of money... as well as rendering the old stuff obsolete, no longer interchangable. I know you can still ride the ole stuff but you get my drift.

I am inclined to think that disc brakes are a "conspiracy" by the industry to get folks spending a fortune in the latest and "greatest." And for what degree of improvement. Baffles me .

Bike sales had been flat for a long time. One company's sales go up 2%, somebody else's goes down 2%. Discs on MTBs ARE a good idea. Mud and muck, still have brakes, back a rim, still have brakes but some brainiac thought, 'why not on road bikes? In fact, we'll emphasize how dangerous road riding is and how great it is to ride on dirt roads out in the 'country'. And we'll start to sell fat rims and tires and talk about much 'better' those are, even on those dangerous roads.'
And we'll call it 'Gravel Bikes'....and sell a ton of them...Even tho we know most won't actually ride them on dirt roads, but to the coffee shop for that 25 miler on Sunday. "Ooo, new bike?"..

Amen. Don't care what you ride, if I come up to you and you're riding (insert here) brakes I will still say hello and ask how you are doing.

If it were only that simple. Far too often a rim brake guy is chastised, or criticized for sticking to rim brakes, even here...Often even chastised by 'industry' as they try to sell their 'latest and greatest'.

Great post above from carlucci1106, from in the trenches.

[sg8357]

Originally Posted by Pinned

Is anyone else tired of beating this dead horse?

Buy what you like. Vote with your wallet if you want rim brakes. We all know the pros and cons by now.

The internet is powered by dead horses.

I have some circa 1912 cycling magazines, the evil conspiracy
then was the pneumatic tyre.
Also articles about how automobilists were terrorizing cyclists......

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by unterhausen

I'm not watching a video. Anyone want to summarize? I'm not sure that a bike fitter is any more qualified to make this judgement than anyone else.
I'm mostly curious if he had a bike fit related reason to stick with rim brake bikes.

The thread title mentions buying a bike. If you want a new bike, you're going to have to work nowadays to get a rim brake bike. And probably spend more money if you aren't buying used. If you go to one of the bike shops in town you aren't buying a rim brake bike without paying for custom.

He said they were fussy to work on and tend to rub on the rotors. He also said if you were a strong lightweight rider you didn't need them but if you were heavy and weak or rode downhill in the rain you could benefit from them. He also shrugged and said at some point he will buy a bike with disc brakes because that is all that will be available.