Cycling has been changed forever - safer helmet thread

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Shades of Boeing and the FAA

Not the same. See above, peer reviewed paper in an academic journal which is far from a white paper. Reasonable and expected that the inventors of new tech will be contributing authors to such a publication. Like all peer reviewed science it was vetted and critiqued by external reviewers that are not invested in the product or results prior to publication.

[berserk87]

Here is an article noting some pushback about the new helmet system:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...ys-mips-411226

[wooly]

I've got a Smith road helmet (non-mips) and a mountain helmet with mips. They definitely restrict air flow more than other, well ventilated helmets. I don't mind on most days but when it's hot, I reach for my non-mips POC helmets. If the airflow of the new Trek helmets is better than the Smiths I'd give it a try. Sucks that I have 6 helmets hanging in my garage tho!

[makoti]

Originally Posted by berserk87

Here is an article noting some pushback about the new helmet system:

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...ys-mips-411226

One system says the other system fails at it's claims after the first system claims to be better. Shocked, I tell ya.
We need independent tests. Hopefully we get them.

[Lewis Moon]

After my concussion and subdural hematoma last year, I am completely on board with safer helmets. I'm worried that Trek may be over selling the tech, though. The journal is indeed peer reviewed (by two) but having been in the same position as a reviewer and author, when you're doing research on the bleeding edge of a new technology, it's hard to get a really adequate review.

The MIPS folks come off a bit butt hurt in their review of the article, but they have some good points...especially about the objectiveness of the authors.
There really does need to be an independent review before making the claims Trek is trumpeting.
Never lose site of Trek's main responsibility as a corporation.

[benb]

I have 0 faith in MIPS being any more impartial than Trek/Bontrager. Trek stays in business by selling more bike stuff, MIPS stays in business by selling their helmet technology.

MIPS has had years and we're still supposed to take their word on it.

If there is anything to point to MIPS being worthwhile it's the same Virginia Tech lab's testing showing that MIPS helmets are slightly better than non MIPS helmets.

It seems like it is impossible Wavecel could ever equal MIPS in MIPS lab.

I don't hate MIPS or anything, I have a MIPS helmet and I made sure my child was in a MIPS helmet too. Next step is to get my wife in a MIPS or Wavecel helmet, she is way overdue for a new helmet.

[Mark McM]

Virginia Tech has been testing and rating helmets and their ability to limit rotational velocity for a while now, and they appear to be independent of the folks who developed Wavecell. They've tested a number of MIPS and Wavecell helmets, and the top 18 rated helmets are all either MIPS or Wavecel. The Wavecel helmets placed 1st, 3rd, 11th and 12th, and the rest were MIPS. Interestingly, the top 2 helmets are both Bontragers, and the Wavecel model only slightly edged out the MIPS model.

Based on the Virginia Tech tests, Wavecel appears to be roughly comparable to MIPS, and is not the dramatic leap forward that Trek claims.

[benb]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Virginia Tech has been testing and rating helmets and their ability to limit rotational velocity for a while now, and they appear to be independent of the folks who developed Wavecell. They've tested a number of MIPS and Wavecell helmets, and the top 18 rated helmets are all either MIPS or Wavecel. The Wavecel helmets placed 1st, 3rd, 11th and 12th, and the rest were MIPS. Interestingly, the top 2 helmets are both Bontragers, and the Wavecel model only slightly edged out the MIPS model.

Based on the Virginia Tech tests, Wavecel appears to be roughly comparable to MIPS, and is not the dramatic leap forward that Trek claims.

The VT tests are pretty light on the data.

So the Bontrager Ballista that I have right now get 5 stars and so do the new Wavecel helmets...

A rating system of 1-5 isn't enough to know what's going on at all.

It'd be way nicer if they showed the actual test data, like how many Gs each helmet transferred in each test.

[dustyrider]

I’m waiting for 14 speed..

[pobrien]

Tested independently at the Helmet Impact Testing (HIT) facility of the Portland Biomechanics Laboratory, results showed Bontrager WaveCel helmets prevent concussion in 98.8 per cent of crash tests at a 45-degree angle, potentially changing future helmet design entirely.

The article referenced from Cycling news by Ben states that the prevention of concussion was 98.8 percent at 45-degrees. Is this a common test used by the other manufacturers? I would think a direct impact would be more relevant to the discussion to a glancing blow.

I have a MIPS Giro helmet as I want a safe helmet but I still question whether the MIPS is effective as one's hair would act as a slip layer with or without MIPS in the helmet. I don't recall anyone addressing this aspect of MIPS performance in reducing head injury.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by benb

The VT tests are pretty light on the data.

So the Bontrager Ballista that I have right now get 5 stars and so do the new Wavecel helmets...

A rating system of 1-5 isn't enough to know what's going on at all.

It'd be way nicer if they showed the actual test data, like how many Gs each helmet transferred in each test.

Not raw data, but there is a score that is listed below the number of stars on each helmet which is a more detailed assessment of performance. The methodology they use to calculate that is described here: https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/bitstr...=1&isAllowed=y

A lower number indicates better performance. Interestingly, the Bontrager MIPS Balista scored only slightly worse than the Wavecell Spector, and performed better than the XXX wavecell. Further, the mountain WaveCell options are out performed by several road and mountain MIPS options.

[benb]

If you look at some of the Wavecell claims they appear to be testing with velocities and/or angles that are beyond the normal test limits of the STAR rating system that VT uses to produce their rankings.

As for the angles, that has something to do with the orientation of your head when you hit... you can have a 45 degree hit on flat pavement if I understand correctly. I think you could get that if your horizontal velocity & vertical velocity are equal as well.

Also helmets need to protect you from hits to other things than flat pavement. Curbs, rocks, etc..

It would be perfectly possible for a helmet to be better and not test better on a particular test protocol if it's benefits were for impacts that were not tested.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by benb

It would be perfectly possible for a helmet to be better and not test better on a particular test protocol if it's benefits were for impacts that were not tested.

Agree, and I think this is the crux with the marketing from all manufacturers. Where many of them fall short, IMO, is they do a poor job substantiating why their chosen assessments/metrics are more reflective of "real world" conditions. A measurement is only as good as the ruler and when you get carte blanche to build your own ruler, it's easy to find the result you want.

I appreciate the comment from MIPS (which admittedly came across in a defensive tone) that for a fair comparison - all of the products need to be tested in the same way and held to a same standard. A valuable spin from this competition in tech would be the establishment of industry wide standards and testing method benchmarks.

[nooneline]

Originally Posted by makoti

One system says the other system fails at it's claims after the first system claims to be better. Shocked, I tell ya.
We need independent tests. Hopefully we get them.

we have them.

[benb]

I guess the key takeaway from the VT data since it is not that revealing for me is that there are no 5 star helmets without either MIPS or Wavecel.

For me that means it's time for my S-Works Prevail (v1, non-MIPS) to go in the trash. It's pretty old, but I have still been wearing it for MTB or around town since it definitely has better ventilation than my newer helmet. Neither of those use cases is likely low risk.