SRAM wireless help

54ny77 · #1 05-30-2020, 06:01 PM

I'm having an older Tarmac SL2 frame refinished & painted, and am thinking about having the shifter bosses shaved and converting to wireless drivetrain. Couple of questions:

1) The BB is threaded BSA. Can I run my former Red 10 spd crank (or any aftermarket crank), with either crank using external BB, when using Force or Red wireless 12 speed, including the new AXS?
2) Are 12 spd hubs their own particular animal (the freewheel body) or does SRAM just jam 12 cogs in a freewheel body originally designed for 11 spd?

Thanks.

yinzerniner · #2 05-30-2020, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77

I'm having an older Tarmac SL2 frame refinished & painted, and am thinking about having the shifter bosses shaved and converting to wireless drivetrain. Couple of questions:

1) The BB is threaded BSA. Can I run my former Red 10 spd crank (or any aftermarket crank), with either crank using external BB, when using Force or Red wireless 12 speed, including the new AXS?
2) Are 12 spd hubs their own particular animal (the freewheel body) or does SRAM just jam 12 cogs in a freewheel body originally designed for 11 spd?

Thanks.

1- pretty sure only carbon Ti makes 2x axs compatible rings in 110bcd. Otherwise you’ll either need to run 1x or the 8 bolt crankarms. Otherwise you’ll need a bsa dub bb for 29mm spindles or a bsa30 bb for 30mm spindles
2- yes, you’ll need xdr freehub body. Also heard a few reports that mtb shimano 12s works with the Eagle axs rd, and possibly that campy 1x12 works with the RD, but the front rings not 100%.

FlashUNC · #3 05-30-2020, 06:14 PM

12 speed SRAM is its own animal. The 10 tooth cog means an XDR freehub body.

For the crank, I've been using a Rotor Aldhu crank with SRAM 12 with no issues. Not sure a 10 speed SRAM crank would play well, but you don't have to use the AXS cranks with the system, despite SRAM's statements about it.

54ny77 · #4 05-30-2020, 06:44 PM

Am I better off looking for a 1st or 2nd gen Red etap 11 spd kit if I want to use the cranks mentioned?

Blown Reek · #5 05-30-2020, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77

The BB is threaded BSA. Can I run my former Red 10 spd crank (or any aftermarket crank), with either crank using external BB, when using Force or Red wireless 12 speed, including the new AXS?

Yes. You can run any crankset with a BSA bottom bracket. The RED crank is the GXP standard, and the DUB is its own standard. Of course, you can get a GXP BSA bottom bracket, but you can also get a DUB BSA bottom bracket.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77

2) Are 12 spd hubs their own particular animal (the freewheel body) or does SRAM just jam 12 cogs in a freewheel body originally designed for 11 spd?

No, 12- speed hubs aren't their own animal. 12-speed SRAM cassettes are nothing more than an XDR driver on an 11-speed compatible hub. If you have an 11-speed hub that has a removable freehub and an XDR driver is made for it, you're all set.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Am I better off looking for a 1st or 2nd gen Red etap 11 spd kit if I want to use the cranks mentioned?

It depends on if you want to run the obsolete, slow shifting, hard-to-set-up front derailleur of a RED eTap, or the buttery goodness of the newest (and best) stuff out there AXS.

oldpotatoe · #6 05-31-2020, 07:15 AM

Quote:

2) Are 12 spd hubs their own particular animal (the freewheel body) or does SRAM just jam 12 cogs in a freewheel body originally designed for 11 spd?

Quote:

No, 12- speed hubs aren't their own animal. 12-speed SRAM cassettes are nothing more than an XDR driver on an 11-speed compatible hub. If you have an 11-speed hub that has a removable freehub and an XDR driver is made for it, you're all set.

No, they didn't cram 12 cogs onto an otherwise sram 11s FHB(also unique..no 10s sram cogsets or shimano 11s cogsets onto that sram 11s hub)...

IF you DO have a convertible hub, you may be able to get a XDR FHB for it..if you don't have a convertible hub..like tons of shimano hubs and wheels and more than a few sram rear hubs...so 12s sram IS unique, new FHB required..like 11s sram was and 11s shimano is..

Dave · #7 05-31-2020, 08:11 AM

One bit of good news is that Campy and SRAM sprocket spacing is so close to the same that either brand's electronic components will work with the other's cassette.

If I was dying to try SRAM Force AXS I could buy the 3 piece kit and use all of my Campy Chorus 12 parts. Even the chain is optional. I've used both the Campy 12 and AXS chains with no problem.

My Campy wheels could also be converted to an XDR freehub, but SRAM's 11-33 cassette spacing sucks compared to a Campy 11-34. A crank with a 16T difference also gives more range. SRAM users claim that the FD will shift across 16T, but you don't see SRAM selling any cranks with more than a 13T difference.

With the Force AXS 3 piece kit priced way higher than an 8 piece Chorus 12 group, that won't happen.

yinzerniner · #8 05-31-2020, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

One bit of good news is that Campy and SRAM sprocket spacing is so close to the same that either brand's electronic components will work with the other's cassette.

If I was dying to try SRAM Force AXS I could buy the 3 piece kit and use all of my Campy Chorus 12 parts. Even the chain is optional. I've used both the Campy 12 and AXS chains with no problem.

My Campy wheels could also be converted to an XDR freehub, but SRAM's 11-33 cassette spacing sucks compared to a Campy 11-34. A crank with a 16T difference also gives more range. SRAM users claim that the FD will shift across 16T, but you don't see SRAM selling any cranks with more than a 13T difference.

With the Force AXS 3 piece kit priced way higher than an 8 piece Chorus 12 group, that won't happen.

Also similar with shimano microspline 12s or rotor 12s cassettes, where the spacing differences are very minimal so theoretically the axs RD should work. But whether the spacing can cause long term wear and shifting issues on the other components is still not known, and investing the $ just to find out probably isn’t feasible
That being said the 2x 107bcd spider that comes on the Force Axs crank can acoomodate different sized chainrings than what comes stock, so you can do a 48/33 10-33 combo if you mix and match which will get you the same range as a 52/36 11-36, which is pretty huge.

54ny77 · #9 05-31-2020, 08:47 AM

Thanks for all the tips. My head's kind of exploding with the complications involved...

I was hoping for just wireless shifters and being able to run any crank and call it a day! Lot more involved though to ensure its part of a "system."

No interest in the 1x thing. I understand gear inches are gear inches, but I don't like the looks of a personal pizza on the back cog.

yinzerniner · #10 05-31-2020, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54ny77

Thanks for all the tips. My head's kind of exploding with the complications involved...

I was hoping for just wireless shifters and being able to run any crank and call it a day! Lot more involved though to ensure its part of a "system."

No interest in the 1x thing. I understand gear inches are gear inches, but I don't like the looks of a personal pizza on the back cog.

Yeah if you wanna keep the crank stick with first gen Etap. It’s cheaper, will work with 20x more components and the only real downsides are the single gear, slightly slower shifts, no app setup, lack of clutch/fluid damper on RD and FD tire clearance. So most of the benefits are for off road ventures.

SoCalSteve · #11 05-31-2020, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yinzerniner

Yeah if you wanna keep the crank stick with first gen Etap. It’s cheaper, will work with 20x more components and the only real downsides are the single gear, slightly slower shifts, no app setup, lack of clutch/fluid damper on RD and FD tire clearance. So most of the benefits are for off road ventures.

I was thinking the same thing. 1st gen 11 speed etap is compatible with most chains, cassettes, cranks, freehubs, etc. mix and match away!

I’ve run it now on 4 or 5 road bikes, with no issues. I think SRAM messed up by making AXS so proprietary. I hope to keep running 1st gen for a very long time.