Riders banned because of team affiliation

[makoti]

I didn't have a problem with the organizers setting their own rules on who can join. If they have a beef with a team for what ever reason, that's between them & the team.
UNTIL... you said that maybe things could be worked out for a donation. That's the mob. That's blackmail. That's wrong.

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by makoti

I didn't have a problem with the organizers setting their own rules on who can join. If they have a beef with a team for what ever reason, that's between them & the team.
UNTIL... you said that maybe things could be worked out for a donation. That's the mob. That's blackmail. That's wrong.

I'd love to agree with you. And know more. But until I see a news story or statement issued by the race org, this thread is the only activity on the internet that speaks to it.

Normally, we'd have more of a source than (just) an OP followed by others commenting. Does anyone at all have more information?

[bobswire]

Originally Posted by Brucer

I’m baffled at the implication made by P2A organizers (and other inflated windbags like Dick Pound, who now makes a good living out of traveling around the world to bang the anti-doping drum) that professional and elite-level sport was once a lily-white activity pursued by a bunch of noble athletes who played strictly by the rules and never dreamed of reducing the weight of their cranks, eating a prescribed diet of kelp and frog’s balls, rubbing their legs with horse lineament or snorting a few lines of cocaine before a race. All of these upstanding individuals like Henne Kuyper, Tom SImpson, Gianni Bugno, Laurent Fignon, Beryl Burton . . . participated in cycling because of the joy it brought to their heart and always made sure that they beat their competitors fair and square by riding identical bikes on identcal tubulars inflated to identical pressures, following identical training regimes, sleeping for exactly the same number of hours every night and peeing twice a day whether they had to or not. Then suddenly, and almost overnight, a band of scurrilous deceitful reprobates infiltrated the sport and began riding to victory by enormous margins, and everyone thought for a long time that they were doing it on the same terms as their predecessors. Suddenly and almost overnight these scurvy bastards stained the lily-white culture of cycling, brought it into disrepute and rode away with millions of dope-fueled dollars while the innocents of the sport either stood around with their thumbs up their asses watching it happen or drew the attention of the world to doping when it began in the 1990s Or was it the 1980s? Or possibly the 1970s? No, wait, it was the 1960s. Or maybe the 1950s? Well, whenever the **** it happened, all the cleanly run well-intentioned incorruptible participants in the sport jumped up and down until the world paid attention; never for one second did these saintly paragons weigh the options and add doping to their arsenal of tactics for winning races. And once the world paid attention (in the 1930s or 40s or whenever) and learned the truth about the unscrupulous tactics used by competitors in cycling, the number of spectators attending races like the Tour de France plummeted from the millions to about three guys standing alone by the roadside waving signs that said, “Bobet dopes!” and “Up yours, Moser!” and “Eddy go home!” Sponsors immediately withdrew from the sport, television coverage stopped, viewers around the world abandoned cycling for shows like “How to change your baby’s diaper” and The Donny Osmond Happy Hour. And every rider who was ever suspected of doping pitched in with a contribution to a “clean sport initiative” that has changed the minds of millions of athletes who now compete not to win but simply to have good clean fun. And that, boys and girls, is why we can now eat slices of the moon on our grilled cheese sandwiches.

And by the way, I also think cyclists should stop wearing those tight pants.

Out of the mouth of Babes. Having survived most of those slanderous defamatory episodes I look forward to the next, Bravo.

[572cv]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I'd love to agree with you. And know more. But until I see a news story or statement issued by the race org, this thread is the only activity on the internet that speaks to it.

Normally, we'd have more of a source than (just) an OP followed by others commenting. Does anyone at all have more information?

+1. Thought we aspired to at least this much here.

[bobswire]

Originally Posted by 572cv

+1. Thought we aspired to at least this much here.

What do you think this is, the Halls of Congress. Nevermind that was not the best example.

[Kontact]

Are the riders actually banned, or just if they are riding as representatives of that team?

Seems like a big difference from what we normally think of as a "rider ban".

[572cv]

Originally Posted by bobswire

What do you think this is, the Halls of Congress. Nevermind that was not the best example.

[Brucer]

There's no news story about this because Canada's cycling press doesn't get involved much in controversy if it might alienate an advertiser. And P2A is an advertiser. But here's an email sent from a P2A organizer to one of the Mariposa team members, an elite-level Canadian cyclist, regarding the team's entry. As you can see, it goes beyond heaping scorn on Michael to include his entire family. Sheesh.:

"We’d love to have you back at P2A as our guest, but the baggage
of Mariposa and the Barrys makes it tough for me . For years we
celebrated the participation in p2a of another guy who turned out to
have been as dirty as they come. I’m embarrassed by that. I need
to make amends.
"Mike cheated. That Dede won an Olympic medal clean while epo was in
the fridge at home defies credulity. They are now the face of
Mariposa bicycles and are celebrated for their cycling achievements
on the Mariposa website. No asterisk to their palmares, no clean
sport message, nor an apology to clean riders whose place in pro
cycling, at the Olympics or World Championships that they took. No
explanation of how they got sucked down that rabbit hole and regret
it and hope to help future generations from the same fate..
"You knew too, when you signed up to work and race for them, that
this was a polarizing issue. I don’t believe [the other
members of the team] are unaware either. Did they not
care? Do they think it was ok back then? Are you ok with cheaters
getting the better of you? I’m not and I hope you and
other guys aren’t either.
"I’m losing sleep over this because it bugs the hell out of
me. One of the first real bike shops I ever went to was
Bicyclesport. It was a can’t miss day trip for a 13 year old kid
from St Catharines to drool over bikes I couldn’t afford in a
store that wasn’t dedicated to hockey and baseball. I drove Mike
to races in Ohio when he was a junior because I was going anyway and
he was a hell of a nice kid, super talented and I was happy to help
get him to bigger races to further his career. Bicycle Specialties
was the go to shop when I needed new/old stock brake hoods for
Weinman levers for an old winter bike I rehabbed.
"I can’t in good conscience provide any incentives or a discounted
entry and the associated platform for publicity at P2A for a team
sponsored by Mariposa unless and until they insert themselves into
the public conversation about anti doping and clean sport and
demonstrate a meaningful commitment to clean sport.
"How about Mariposa matching all the teams prize money winnings for
2018 and beyond with an annual donation to CCES or another clean
sport initiative? We’d be happy to help facilitate that
conversation. Clean sport is an issue that will never go away and I
firmly believe it’s more important than ever.
"I can’t (and shouldn’t ) prevent any rider in good standing
with Cycling Canada and the UCI from participating in P2A regardless
of my opinion of the teams sponsor. What I can and will do is insist
that you pay the going rate if you want to represent Mariposa at
P2A. Your free entry code will be forwarded as usual, with the
understanding that you’ll be listed as “independent” in the
results. If you would like to see your team sponsor on the results
you can enter elite directly since you qualify according to our
published criteria."

[Kontact]

So it isn't a rider ban, at all.

[e-RICHIE]

I think that is a good and well written explanation from a person in cycling, invested in a cycling event, asking that people he admired, held in high regard, to be in a wider conversation about their transgressions and doping in sport.

His ball. His court.

Since this is/was a private email and not a press release, and you pasted it here (I don't know if you had permission, or if doing it is kosher), my opinion is that he (the promoter) has a standard he wants to uphold or reach, and is simply exercising it by keeping brands away from his entity that he believes still need some self-reflection.

We'd all handle this differently. This is his way.

Originally Posted by Brucer

There's no news story about this because Canada's cycling press doesn't get involved much in controversy if it might alienate an advertiser. And P2A is an advertiser. But here's an email sent from a P2A organizer to one of the Mariposa team members, an elite-level Canadian cyclist, regarding the team's entry. As you can see, it goes beyond heaping scorn on Michael to include his entire family. Sheesh.:

"We’d love to have you back at P2A as our guest, but the baggage
of Mariposa and the Barrys makes it tough for me . For years we
celebrated the participation in p2a of another guy who turned out to
have been as dirty as they come. I’m embarrassed by that. I need
to make amends.
"Mike cheated. That Dede won an Olympic medal clean while epo was in
the fridge at home defies credulity. They are now the face of
Mariposa bicycles and are celebrated for their cycling achievements
on the Mariposa website. No asterisk to their palmares, no clean
sport message, nor an apology to clean riders whose place in pro
cycling, at the Olympics or World Championships that they took. No
explanation of how they got sucked down that rabbit hole and regret
it and hope to help future generations from the same fate..
"You knew too, when you signed up to work and race for them, that
this was a polarizing issue. I don’t believe [the other
members of the team] are unaware either. Did they not
care? Do they think it was ok back then? Are you ok with cheaters
getting the better of you? I’m not and I hope you and
other guys aren’t either.
"I’m losing sleep over this because it bugs the hell out of
me. One of the first real bike shops I ever went to was
Bicyclesport. It was a can’t miss day trip for a 13 year old kid
from St Catharines to drool over bikes I couldn’t afford in a
store that wasn’t dedicated to hockey and baseball. I drove Mike
to races in Ohio when he was a junior because I was going anyway and
he was a hell of a nice kid, super talented and I was happy to help
get him to bigger races to further his career. Bicycle Specialties
was the go to shop when I needed new/old stock brake hoods for
Weinman levers for an old winter bike I rehabbed.
"I can’t in good conscience provide any incentives or a discounted
entry and the associated platform for publicity at P2A for a team
sponsored by Mariposa unless and until they insert themselves into
the public conversation about anti doping and clean sport and
demonstrate a meaningful commitment to clean sport.
"How about Mariposa matching all the teams prize money winnings for
2018 and beyond with an annual donation to CCES or another clean
sport initiative? We’d be happy to help facilitate that
conversation. Clean sport is an issue that will never go away and I
firmly believe it’s more important than ever.
"I can’t (and shouldn’t ) prevent any rider in good standing
with Cycling Canada and the UCI from participating in P2A regardless
of my opinion of the teams sponsor. What I can and will do is insist
that you pay the going rate if you want to represent Mariposa at
P2A. Your free entry code will be forwarded as usual, with the
understanding that you’ll be listed as “independent” in the
results. If you would like to see your team sponsor on the results
you can enter elite directly since you qualify according to our
published criteria."

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by e-RICHIE

I think that is a good and well written explanation... This is his way.

I agree. Credit to you for persisting in asking for source material.

[pasadena]

That's great. I wish more organizers would do this.

Originally Posted by Brucer

There's no news story about this because Canada's cycling press doesn't get involved much in controversy if it might alienate an advertiser. And P2A is an advertiser. But here's an email sent from a P2A organizer to one of the Mariposa team members, an elite-level Canadian cyclist, regarding the team's entry. As you can see, it goes beyond heaping scorn on Michael to include his entire family. Sheesh.:

"We’d love to have you back at P2A as our guest, but the baggage
of Mariposa and the Barrys makes it tough for me . For years we
celebrated the participation in p2a of another guy who turned out to
have been as dirty as they come. I’m embarrassed by that. I need
to make amends.
"Mike cheated. That Dede won an Olympic medal clean while epo was in
the fridge at home defies credulity. They are now the face of
Mariposa bicycles and are celebrated for their cycling achievements
on the Mariposa website. No asterisk to their palmares, no clean
sport message, nor an apology to clean riders whose place in pro
cycling, at the Olympics or World Championships that they took. No
explanation of how they got sucked down that rabbit hole and regret
it and hope to help future generations from the same fate..
"You knew too, when you signed up to work and race for them, that
this was a polarizing issue. I don’t believe [the other
members of the team] are unaware either. Did they not
care? Do they think it was ok back then? Are you ok with cheaters
getting the better of you? I’m not and I hope you and
other guys aren’t either.
"I’m losing sleep over this because it bugs the hell out of
me. One of the first real bike shops I ever went to was
Bicyclesport. It was a can’t miss day trip for a 13 year old kid
from St Catharines to drool over bikes I couldn’t afford in a
store that wasn’t dedicated to hockey and baseball. I drove Mike
to races in Ohio when he was a junior because I was going anyway and
he was a hell of a nice kid, super talented and I was happy to help
get him to bigger races to further his career. Bicycle Specialties
was the go to shop when I needed new/old stock brake hoods for
Weinman levers for an old winter bike I rehabbed.
"I can’t in good conscience provide any incentives or a discounted
entry and the associated platform for publicity at P2A for a team
sponsored by Mariposa unless and until they insert themselves into
the public conversation about anti doping and clean sport and
demonstrate a meaningful commitment to clean sport.
"How about Mariposa matching all the teams prize money winnings for
2018 and beyond with an annual donation to CCES or another clean
sport initiative? We’d be happy to help facilitate that
conversation. Clean sport is an issue that will never go away and I
firmly believe it’s more important than ever.
"I can’t (and shouldn’t ) prevent any rider in good standing
with Cycling Canada and the UCI from participating in P2A regardless
of my opinion of the teams sponsor. What I can and will do is insist
that you pay the going rate if you want to represent Mariposa at
P2A. Your free entry code will be forwarded as usual, with the
understanding that you’ll be listed as “independent” in the
results. If you would like to see your team sponsor on the results
you can enter elite directly since you qualify according to our
published criteria."

[Brian Cdn]

Originally Posted by pasadena

That's great. I wish more organizers would do this.

Do what ?
Punish riders for their team name ?
Ask for a monetary handout ?

[e-RICHIE]

Originally Posted by Brian Cdn

Do what ?
Punish riders for their team name ?
Ask for a monetary handout ?

I didn't see where the organizer asked for a monetary handout. Can you point me to this? Thank you.

[Brucer]

I'm not so concerned about decisions made by the organizer of a specific event as I am about the broader issues involved: how long does a person have to atone for his sins? On what criteria do organizations decide to accept or reject a sponsor? Should a team's members pay the price for a sponsor's transgressions? We don't have any clear answers to these questions. People just make it up as they go along. Seems unfair to me.