Vintage Audio part 5 - Speakers

[yinzerniner]

Originally Posted by William

Even if a live event is mixed and EQ'd before it comes out of the pro-audio speakers that musicians use it is still the sound that people experience. Wouldn't a good recording run through a decent amp and pro-audio speakers be closer to that mark than audiophile speakers?

Again, the answer is NO.

Here's a very good explanation (from here) I found on the googs for why PA / Professional loudspeakers are not the best for critical listening environments, and will not give you the best listening experience:

"PA speakers have different design priorities than home speakers. They have to be build tough enough to bounce around in the back of a van going from one gig to the next, and they have to be able to play for hours on end at ear splitting levels, gig after gig, year in and year out, as well as outdoors in heat, cold and humidity.

On top of that, PA speakers are not designed to sound their best at a distance of 8-15 ft., as is the situation for home listening.

Way down the list of priorities is sound quality. PA speakers that sound good enough to be in a residential hi-fi installation are few and far between, and the ones that do will cost you many times more than a home speaker that sounds as good as it does."

Basically reiterating what everyone else has said.

You don't use a $700 Taylor Made driver to putt, so why use speakers designed for toughness and volume when you're accurately trying to recreate a live listening environment?

As to what is "authentic," the sound you hear at a concert is yes, authentic. But remember it's only an audio sound wave. That audio sound wave that hits your eardrums at the concert is a slurry of the already-mixed sound signal turned into waves created by the loudspeakers, which in turn are further altered by distance and listening environment conditions. PA/Horn loudspeakers aren't as good at recreating that wave as dedicated high fidelity loudspeakers, as PA/Horn loudspeakers are not designed for that task. Yes, some PA/Horn loudspeakers can do a decent job of replicating the sound wave, but at any price point a dedicated hi-fi speaker will do better.

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by Bob Ross

and why only in a tiny niche of this already tiny niche hobby do folks use horn speakers (generally in the ultra-low-power Single Ended Triode camp of extotica).

Do not have much direct experience with horns. But this certainly resonates with my general audio knowledge and research into complementary areas. The only time I have considered high efficiency horn style speakers was when I was considering what a build would look like based on a Nelson Pass First Watt style Amp. Very low power SE as you describe. That would be my base formula for a low power dining room setup if I ever got the chance.

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by pjm

I am, right now, listening to Sarah Jarosz on my Totem “The One” stand mounted monitors along with a Totem Lightning subwoofer. Power comes from a Simaudio Moon 340i integrated amp. Source is an Arcam CD36 CD player using the Moons built in DAC. Cable is all Nordost.

The thing I really love about just about all the Totems I’ve heard is that they sound great just about anywhere in the room. It’s not necessary to be sitting right in a sweet spot. Imaging is amazing.

Very nice system

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by pobrien

I have Klipsch Heresy III speakers a...I think I need a set of the latest Forte speakers!
Patrick

I think it's safe to say ANY speaker that has a long history in the market must be popular enough, and sound good enough, that the manufacturer continues to leverage that popularity.

The Klipsch Forte is one example. In fact, that could probably be said for the entire Klipsch Heritage line.

Another litmus test for me is the frequency a speaker appears on the used market i.e., eBay and craigslist.

I'm inclined to agree with William's logic on horn loaded speakers. I think the reason they're not as ubiquitous as you might expect partially due to marketing. Other brands might appear to be copying Klipsch designs. Another reason would be size. A fully horn loaded speaker is larger and heavier than most people prefer to have in their homes.

[parris]

I've been looking at speakers lately. I don't "need" anything much like I don't "need" another bike, firearm, or camera.

I think that part of the horn speaker opinion is that due to momentum in the market and information that's been passed along for years there are many people that will automatically say that a horn doesn't sound "good" without giving a good listen. It's just a thought and may be completely off.

[Peter P.]

Originally Posted by parris

I've been looking at speakers lately. I don't "need" anything much like I don't "need" another bike, firearm, or camera.

I think that part of the horn speaker opinion is that due to momentum in the market and information that's been passed along for years there are many people that will automatically say that a horn doesn't sound "good" without giving a good listen. It's just a thought and may be completely off.

Your thoughts aren't off.

Audio beauty is in the ear of the beholder, and every speaker has its fans. Buy what sounds good to you-but make sure they have horns!

A Klipsch Fan

[William]

Originally Posted by parris

I've been looking at speakers lately. I don't "need" anything much like I don't "need" another bike, firearm, or camera.

I think that part of the horn speaker opinion is that due to momentum in the market and information that's been passed along for years there are many people that will automatically say that a horn doesn't sound "good" without giving a good listen. It's just a thought and may be completely off.

If you are "looking", some minty Klipschorns as well as "Salesman's Sample" Klipsch Heresy's" this just came up on my local CL. Mrs. William would never go for bringing the Klipschorns into the house but maybe I could get away with the Heresys...

Funny thing is, perusing some other audio forums there are some where the opinion is reversed on pro-audio/horn speakers and they are more on the pro side. Most of the audiophile videos that I've seen that diss horns usually demonstrate that by cupping their hands around their mouths, inflect their voice, and say "they sound like this". So far the ones I've heard (cupping my hands around my mouth) don't sound like that. Just goes to show that "sound" for the most part is subjective.









William

[pobrien]

Perhaps Mrs. Williams would warm up to the Heresy speakers if you had some of her favorite music playing when she 'notices' them in your home...

From there, I would go with some Forte III speakers. And a fine turntable!

It was good to hear thoughts from Peter P and parris.

[William]

Originally Posted by pobrien

Perhaps Mrs. Williams would warm up to the Heresy speakers if you had some of her favorite music playing when she 'notices' them in your home...

From there, I would go with some Forte III speakers. And a fine turntable!

It was good to hear thoughts from Peter P and parris.

Better to ask forgiveness than....

You don't know Mrs. William...she's a pack of DY-NO-MITE when she wants to be.







William

[daker13]

Originally Posted by William

If you are "looking", some minty Klipschorns as well as "Salesman's Sample" Klipsch Heresy's" this just came up on my local CL. Mrs. William would never go for bringing the Klipschorns into the house but maybe I could get away with the Heresys...

Pretty cool listing. The guy sounds prickly enough to be an audiophile. 10-15 years ago it was fairly easy to stumble across NOS European tubes... I know those times are mostly over, but has it really gotten to the point where a guy can say, I have a bunch of new old stock tubes, $2000 and bring your own tester?

[kingpin75s]

Originally Posted by daker13

Pretty cool listing. The guy sounds prickly enough to be an audiophile. 10-15 years ago it was fairly easy to stumble across NOS European tubes... I know those times are mostly over, but has it really gotten to the point where a guy can say, I have a bunch of new old stock tubes, $2000 and bring your own tester?

Yes. It seemingly has gotten to that point, but in my opinion most of the expensive NOS tubes I have heard, sound rolled off to me. They often have a blacker background but at the expense of being rolled off. Not saying there are not great NOS tubes out there by any means, but I would never presume they are better. Rare is just rare and expensive, not always better.

I really like the Genalex Gold Lions for modern tubes and surprisingly have had great luck with cheap JJs as well. They have replaced some very expensive NOS tubes I received with my systems or had in place for a bit on a borrow to buy where the owner wanted his "special" tubes back.

[glepore]

So, I'm making a venture into SET- I'm going to need an efficient speaker as my Ohm 4's are both too power hungry and a complex load. So, assuming that I want to do this in a "budget" fashion, what would the braintrust here recommend either used or diy? Something infinite baffle or? Drivers? How do the modern Klipsch designs sound (Crutchfield is a a dealer and has a local retail outlet)?

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by timsmcm

Anything Sonus Faber with a nice tube amp. Very natural and organic. Great imaging and sound stage. The more you can spend the better they get.

Yes!

[DarkStar]

[QUOTE=jmoore;2434120]Audio dorks are worse than bike dorks when it comes to equipment. Camera dorks are right up there too.
True

[DarkStar]

Originally Posted by jtbadge

IDK about that rule of thumb. Sure, JBLs are great, but tons of studios have used Yamaha NS10s since the late 70's because they sound so bad and the engineers wanted to make recordings that would sound good regardless of what they were played back on.

NS10s were just horrible, but they served their purpose.