TT Bikes should be banned?

[dzxc]

Article's puffery aside, it seems to boil down to three key points: TT bikes are more dangerous than road bikes, TT bikes/stages require extra training, TT bikes require extra expense.

Going backward, the extra expense I think is interesting. We can argue about the budgets of various teams in relation to one another, but I think it's interesting to see what a team can do within a budget. Do they choose to have one fewer TT bike and allocate that money to a spare road bike? Do they choose to hire an extra mechanic or use that money elsewhere? We've been watching the differences in teams' budgets play out since time immemorial across all sports: Yankees vs Orioles (Yankees have 5x budget, but don't win 5x as many times, in fact they're only a couple spots ahead of the O's this season), Team Sky/Ineos vs Everyone Else -- (the highest rank Ineos rider placed 13th in this year's TdF). That being said I don't find team budgets to be a compelling reason to ban TT bikes, all teams have budget to field riders with the equipment they need and place well, and the meta game is always interesting, if you're into that kind of thing. Did a team accountant write this article?

TT bikes require extra training -- Not really? Seems like an afterthought in the article. Yeah, different position than road, but any pro rider adapts quickly. Slightly different muscle usage, but they're pros, cycling is their thing. If I, someone far from being a pro, can quickly adapt to using a TT (triathlon) bike and ride ten thousand miles on it, pros can as well. It's more exciting.

Safety -- Easy to Fox News this one, pick out TT crashes and sensationalize them a little to drum up support for some argument. Unfortunately I can't find any easy to access data of crashes per stage of TdF. Admittedly small sample, but regexing through the various 2020 recaps of TdF, I don't see any crashes in the only TT stage (Stage 20) and there were tons of crashes otherwise (Stage 3 seems like an outlier, but lots of crashes this year), crashes in a number of stages aside from Stage 20. I think the proper metric here is crashes per hour ridden per person. At least this year, that number is significantly higher for regular road riding than TT riding. I would love to get actual data on this though and put together an analysis across all major races and all seasons, but I don't see if this is easily accessible. TT bikes may lead to more crashes (less safety) and that seems to be a common sense suggestion based on what the author posted (position, brakes, etc.), but so far the numbers point to the opposite and the article's author didn't bring any real analysis outside of clips. Boo.

Overall, maybe TT bikes should be banned, I don't know. They make things more exciting though, increase the interestingness of the meta game, break up the monotony of endless pelotons riding across the countryside in races, etc. But the author certainly didn't present anything more than some specious, shallow arguments and some clips of TT riders crashing.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by dzxc

Article's puffery aside, it seems to boil down to three key points: TT bikes are more dangerous than road bikes, TT bikes/stages require extra training, TT bikes require extra expense.

Going backward, the extra expense I think is interesting. We can argue about the budgets of various teams in relation to one another, but I think it's interesting to see what a team can do within a budget. Do they choose to have one fewer TT bike and allocate that money to a spare road bike? Do they choose to hire an extra mechanic or use that money elsewhere? We've been watching the differences in teams' budgets play out since time immemorial across all sports: Yankees vs Orioles (Yankees have 5x budget, but don't win 5x as many times, in fact they're only a couple spots ahead of the O's this season), Team Sky/Ineos vs Everyone Else -- (the highest rank Ineos rider placed 13th in this year's TdF). That being said I don't find team budgets to be a compelling reason to ban TT bikes, all teams have budget to field riders with the equipment they need and place well, and the meta game is always interesting, if you're into that kind of thing. Did a team accountant write this article?

TT bikes require extra training -- Not really? Seems like an afterthought in the article. Yeah, different position than road, but any pro rider adapts quickly. Slightly different muscle usage, but they're pros, cycling is their thing. If I, someone far from being a pro, can quickly adapt to using a TT (triathlon) bike and ride ten thousand miles on it, pros can as well. It's more exciting.

Safety -- Easy to Fox News this one, pick out TT crashes and sensationalize them a little to drum up support for some argument. Unfortunately I can't find any easy to access data of crashes per stage of TdF. Admittedly small sample, but regexing through the various 2020 recaps of TdF, I don't see any crashes in the only TT stage (Stage 20) and there were tons of crashes otherwise (Stage 3 seems like an outlier, but lots of crashes this year), crashes in a number of stages aside from Stage 20. I think the proper metric here is crashes per hour ridden per person. At least this year, that number is significantly higher for regular road riding than TT riding. I would love to get actual data on this though and put together an analysis across all major races and all seasons, but I don't see if this is easily accessible. TT bikes may lead to more crashes (less safety) and that seems to be a common sense suggestion based on what the author posted (position, brakes, etc.), but so far the numbers point to the opposite and the article's author didn't bring any real analysis outside of clips. Boo.

Overall, maybe TT bikes should be banned, I don't know. They make things more exciting though, increase the interestingness of the meta game, break up the monotony of endless pelotons riding across the countryside in races, etc. But the author certainly didn't present anything more than some specious, shallow arguments and some clips of TT riders crashing.

Need a like button for this

[cinema]

'everyone has the same advantage' is a dumb argument. Once you ban them, which the author concedes will never happen anyway, teams will just be positioning and designing bikes as closely as possible to obtain the aero edge within some narrower framework of what is allowed. and will end up having similar safety concerns, who knows could even be worse. the current TT bike, while dumb and mostly useful for only professional races, is decades of refinement as seen in previous posts here of dumb retro aero stuff.

[makoti]

TT bikes are unsafe? Really? More than coming down the side of a mountain at 60mph on a bike? Ban mountains! More than riding in the wet? Ban rain!
TT bikes require professionals who do NOTHING but ride all year to train for something a bit different? When will they squeeze it in? Those 60 mile training rides leave no time to get into an aero position for a few miles to practice.
I think the problem just might be operator error.
That was some in-depth reporting, though. Pez...

[Hellgate]

I didn't read the article, but no. As long as they are at the back of group ride, or pulling into a head wind I could care less.

[shinomaster]

When all of your weight is over the front wheel the bike becomes super nervous and twitchy and unstable. This all get exacerbated by the high speeds, wind and wet roads causing lots of crashes. Go try one see what it's like.

[Tz779]

It will be the riders who, if injuries stack up, will change the rules on TT bikes.

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

If everyone ride fixed gear bikes it would be better

There you go. Make it a blind draw. Everyone draws a bike front a pool of bikes in their size. All spec bikes, same tires, same bars etc.

[colker]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

If everyone ride fixed gear bikes it would be better

On the Alps.

[makoti]

Originally Posted by shinomaster

When all of your weight is over the front wheel the bike becomes super nervous and twitchy and unstable. This all get exacerbated by the high speeds, wind and wet roads causing lots of crashes. Go try one see what it's like.

You're thinking people here have never tried a TT bike? Really?
And all of those situations occur on a normal bike & people who don't ride would claim the same dangers. It's not the bike.

[Hellgate]

Originally Posted by shinomaster

When all of your weight is over the front wheel the bike becomes super nervous and twitchy and unstable. This all get exacerbated by the high speeds, wind and wet roads causing lots of crashes. Go try one see what it's like.

I assume you've not old-school super tucked. It's stable at 50+.

And in motorcycle roadracing braking and turning is all about weight over the front wheel.

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by Hellgate

I assume you've not old-school super tucked. It's stable at 50+.

And in motorcycle roadracing braking and turning is all about weight over the front wheel.

How much does a motorcycle weigh? Im guessing the weight would help with stability. On a bike forward positioning is just less stable in my experience.

[shinomaster]

Originally Posted by makoti

You're thinking people here have never tried a TT bike? Really?
And all of those situations occur on a normal bike & people who don't ride would claim the same dangers. It's not the bike.

You’re saying a TT bike is just as stable and safe as a regular road bike in windy or wet conditions?

[charliedid]

Originally Posted by colker

On the Alps.

On board POV cameras for sure....with audio.

[benb]

Originally Posted by cinema

Once you ban them, which the author concedes will never happen anyway, teams will just be positioning and designing bikes as closely as possible to obtain the aero edge within some narrower framework of what is allowed. and will end up having similar safety concerns, who knows could even be worse. the current TT bike, while dumb and mostly useful for only professional races, is decades of refinement as seen in previous posts here of dumb retro aero stuff.

Silly argument.. regular road bikes in UCI racing already have their own set of rules and all the teams already do all this stuff to try and get right to the edge of what is allowed.

So getting rid of TT bikes would not change that.. it'd just get rid of TT bikes and they'd have one setup they try to game instead of 2 setups they try to game.