What Happened to Tubular Popularity?

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by .RJ

For all of you cranky tubular riding campy users, how many miles a year are you putting on your tubulars? Training 5k, 8k, 10k miles a year?

Clinchers have gotten really good. I wont ride garbage tires, but with putting a fair amount of miles out on the road I just cant see the hassle of tubulars being worth it for me. Yes, they are hassle compared to dropping by the shop on my ride home, buying 2 new vittoria corsas and putting them on the bike in 15 minutes.

Thousands of miles. Also, my anecdotal experience is that I do flat less often with my tubulars. I have no evidence to back this up nor do I have any agenda of trying to convert people. I’ve just been using them since I got my first road racing bike in 1984. I ride clinchers more nowadays because they’re so close in ride quality that even after 35 years on tubulars I can barely tell the difference. I can tell the difference, but it’s so small as to not matter to me.

When my stash of tubular tires is gone I may be done with them. That’s still a few years away though.

[rwsaunders]

Originally Posted by El Chaba

I use tubulars and Campagnolo....

...and I vote. I see a bumper sticker in the making.

[thwart]

Originally Posted by Kontact

Speaking of misconceptions, why would a clincher get more punctures than a tubular? They have the same layers and are the same width and thickness.

Simplifying things a bit, I’d say.

Different construction, and most good ones have a latex tube. And... of course tubulars can be run at a lower pressure without much concern about pinch flatting.

My own personal experience is that I’m more than twice as likely to flat a clincher as a tubular. That’s obviously anecdotal but others have had similar experiences.

[uber]

Campy and tubulars. I just like them. If you don't think the tubulars are too much work, they aren't. I have never found them to be too labor intensive. It takes time and effort to shave my legs too. Hah. Ride what you like. Enjoy every minute.

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by thwart

Simplifying things a bit, I’d say.

Different construction, and most good ones have a latex tube. And... of course tubulars can be run at a lower pressure without much concern about pinch flatting.

My own personal experience is that I’m more than twice as likely to flat a clincher as a tubular. That’s obviously anecdotal but others have had similar experiences.

I can see it for pinch flats, but a thorn is going to puncture through exactly the same layers on the tubular as a regular clincher - rubber, casing, tube.

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Kontact

I can see it for pinch flats, but a thorn is going to puncture through exactly the same layers on the tubular as a regular clincher - rubber, casing, tube.

Seems to be logical. I can’t explain it but I definitely flat less on my tubulars. The difference is that I use Veloflex tubulars and Vittoria clinchers. Maybe the rubber compound is different. The Veloflex tubulars don’t have much grit adherence. The Vittoria clinchers seem to allow more road grit to stick.

Again, no proof. Just tens of thousands of miles riding both over many years.

Both have their pros and cons. Most people choose clinchers. This thread is proof that spring can’t arrive soon enough.

[KarlC]

Sell me your Campy Bora tubular wheels, Ill take them !!

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Seems to be logical. I can’t explain it but I definitely flat less on my tubulars. The difference is that I use Veloflex tubulars and Vittoria clinchers. Maybe the rubber compound is different. The Veloflex tubulars don’t have much grit adherence. The Vittoria clinchers seem to allow more road grit to stick.

Again, no proof. Just tens of thousands of miles riding both over many years.

Both have their pros and cons. Most people choose clinchers. This thread is proof that spring can’t arrive soon enough.

If the Vittorias have a soft, waxy rubber that is definitely going to give glass chips and the like more opportunities to cut through if they don't on the first rotation.

[11.4]

Originally Posted by Blown Reek

Given, they're cantankerous old men who pine for the glory days of downtube shifters, box rims, and Delta brakes, but they seem to be holdouts to the "tubulars are superior" mindset, and are a vocal bunch.

Beg pardon, but you got the wrong era. It was the glory days of downtime shifters, box rims, and first generation Campagnolo brakes, and tubulars are indeed superior. If one considers cycling to be at least in significant part an extensive collection of learned skills, one learns more about tire pressures and use of different tires and with a little discernment comes to realize that tubulars are more amenable to optimization in skilled hands than are clinchers. The cantankerous old men learned cycling when you had to know more than how to spell "Specialized."

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by Kontact

If the Vittorias have a soft, waxy rubber that is definitely going to give glass chips and the like more opportunities to cut through if they don't on the first rotation.

That seems to be my experience. But the Vittorias also have a nice ride, nearly equal to the Veloflex. So I put up with the occasional flat. I'm not generally flat-prone on tubulars or clinchers but the clinchers seem to flat more than my tubulars.

On the other side, I got a set of 23mm Continental clincher tires (high level ones) with a purchase a few years back. I run them on my Pacenti Forza rims with a 20.5 internal width rims and they're close enough for hand grenades on the ride quality when I run them about 75-80 in the rear and 70-75 on the front.

I'm a believer in wide rims and common sense tires and common sense pressures. No blow offs yet but I'm very cautious. My best clincher experiences have been with 23mm tires with wide rims. Like this one below. As close to a tubular as I've yet had. In this picture this rear 23mm Vittoria Open CX is inflated to about 75 PSI. For most riding it's 99% the equal to a high level tubular like a Vittoria, in the estimation of this 35 year user of both. And being many pounds overweight my riding would improve far more by losing some weight off the belly than by worrying about tubular vs. clincher.

[Kirk007]

While some will claim they don't care about weight of their bike, while straddling their 8-900 gram carbon frame, with top end gruppo, carbon post, stem and handlebars, and their carbon clinchers firmly attached in the dropouts, I do wonder if they are aware of the 2-300 grams of additional weight they're dragging around as a result of their convenient wheel choice?

For Example: Campy Bora 35 Ones: 1360 vs 1170 (a little more discrepancy on the Bora 35 discs.

Just sayin ....

[fogrider]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

While some will claim they don't care about weight of their bike, while straddling their 8-900 gram carbon frame, with top end gruppo, carbon post, stem and handlebars, and their carbon clinchers firmly attached in the dropouts, I do wonder if they are aware of the 2-300 grams of additional weight they're dragging around as a result of their convenient wheel choice?

For Example: Campy Bora 35 Ones: 1360 vs 1170 (a little more discrepancy on the Bora 35 discs.

Just sayin ....

nothing accelerates faster than lightweight tubulars!

[ultraman6970]

Magic dust as somebody said??

You are a scientific guy, there is no way to back up claims with numbers but if you look, pretty much everybody say the same thing... "way less punctures". Tubular deforms more than a clincher in the horizontal plane but at the same time are stiffer at the sides, thats why they roll nice. You cant do that with a clincher at all, the thing will be the same all over, they will be or hard or softer all over. If too hard the ride will suck, if they make them too soft they get cuts and puntures almost all the time at the sides... the other thing to factor is luck, and the other one is the PSI sweet spot. In a clincher is way too hard to find a PSI sweet spot that will keep you out of trouble.

The other detail is that you gave an extreme case of thorns, in some towns west you have those rolling thorn things all over the place, between you and me I would not ride tubbies there at all Those are extreme cases, you cant make points with stuff like that, but I been in races with sections of 10 or 15 km of grabble and if you are way too unlucky you will get a nice flat. It is, what it is

But yeah, if you need numbers well... there's no studies that I know of, but always you can do them

Originally Posted by Kontact

Speaking of misconceptions, why would a clincher get more punctures than a tubular? They have the same layers and are the same width and thickness.

[Vientomas]

I rode tubulars way back when...more years ago than I want to think about. Gave up road riding for mountain biking and then returned to the road bike with clinchers. After years of riding clinchers on the road bike, I wanted a light weight set of carbon wheels. I looked into carbon clinchers and tubulars. After reading the many posts of tubular fans here, and comparing the weight and structure between carbon tubular and clincher wheels, I picked up a set of HED Stinger 4's and Vittoria 25c tubulars. The Stingers replaced HED Ardennes with 28c Panaracer clinchers. The result - the Stingers with tubulars are pure unadulterated butter smooth speed. Knock on wood..no flats in two years. Oh, and I ride Campagnolo too

[Kontact]

Originally Posted by Kirk007

While some will claim they don't care about weight of their bike, while straddling their 8-900 gram carbon frame, with top end gruppo, carbon post, stem and handlebars, and their carbon clinchers firmly attached in the dropouts, I do wonder if they are aware of the 2-300 grams of additional weight they're dragging around as a result of their convenient wheel choice?

For Example: Campy Bora 35 Ones: 1360 vs 1170 (a little more discrepancy on the Bora 35 discs.

Just sayin ....

The rubber + spare weight is roughly the same, so the weight penalty is primarily in making a carbon rim strong enough to hold a bead. With alloy rims there is virtually no difference.

But if the point of the exercise is to throw the most money at the bike, then the most expensive clincher rims are heavier than the most expensive tubular rim.