NJ: proposed E-bike bill would require registration, ins.

[MikeD]

Deleted.

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Are we talking about New Jersey or Virginia? In New Jersey, mopeds are allowed in bike lanes.

Ew. I definitely don’t want to share the bike lane with a smog-belching moped.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Alistair

Ew. I definitely don’t want to share the bike lane with a smog-belching moped.

Honesty I can't remember the last time I saw a moped on the street.

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Honesty I can't remember the last time I saw a moped on the street.

Internal combustion or electric? It's been quite a while since I've seen an IC moped, but I've recently seen a number of electric mopeds here in Massachusetts.

The appeal of electric mopeds is that they are clean and quiet. There's also the perception that they are safe to store in a house/apartment - but with the number of fires started by faulty batteries, that may not always be the case.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Internal combustion or electric? It's been quite a while since I've seen an IC moped, but I've recently seen a number of electric mopeds here in Massachusetts.

The appeal of electric mopeds is that they are clean and quiet. There's also the perception that they are safe to store in a house/apartment - but with the number of fires started by faulty batteries, that may not always be the case.

Either one, but I was thinking gasoline powered.

[batman1425]

Originally Posted by MikeD

Honesty I can't remember the last time I saw a moped on the street.

When I lived in Madison, WI mopeds/vespas were very common. E-bikes and scooters weren't a thing then so that may have changed.

[Hank Scorpio]

We live a block up from a small lake. There is a paved road around the perimeter that is approx a one mile loop. It is wide enough in most spots for two way traffic but you have to be mindful of your mirrors. Plenty of families walking, biking, push scooters, dogs, kids etc. There is one family right on the lake with four boys ranging from I am guessing 8-14. We call them the wildboiz. It is uncommon to see them without one being in some kind of cast. They are 100% unsupervised. Their parents bought them two e bikes but no helmets that I have ever seen. The kids ride the bikes around the lake at top speed always. It is only a matter of time before one of them hits a child, dog, car, walker and does serious damage. I know the police have been called numerous times but it doesn’t last. I am hopeful that the bikes get taken away before this summer. There is no reason four healthy red blooded boys can’t pedal a bicycle around a lake all day long.

Unrelated to the wildboiz, I have a friend who volunteers on the local FD. He responded to a fire in the neighborhood that was caused by some type of battery charger. He didn’t say it was e bike related but after that I no longer charge anything other than phones inside the house. I am also so insane that when we go away on vacation I unplug everything I can. Not sure what we are going to do with the fish this year.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

Unfortunately, the article is behind a paywall.

But this would mean that e-bikes would require registration and insurance, just like other motor bikes?

Actually, at least in Colorado, 49cc and less no license, registration or driving license. You don't see scooters on sidewalks around the republic but the sidewalks are lousy with throttled 'e bikes'...just motorized scooters with pedals...with 15 YO kids roaring around on them...most 2 or even 3 up, no helmets.

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by EB

This law as written is unenforceable anyway.

Where are the meaningful statistics backing up these policy proposals? Are there statistically significant results showing that e-bikes are more dangerous to pedestrians than regular bicycles? Where is the evidence that an ebike incurs an inherent liability requiring insurance over and above that incurred by a regular bicycle user? There is more than a whiff of moral panic around this topic.

Exactly this; it’s an insurance lobby play. It seems a lot like the bill in TN that would ban the sale of cold beer to reduce drunk driving—performative nonsense that doesn’t address any real issue. Banning the sale of ebikes that go faster than X mph might be more effective.

And it’s not as if NJ is some haven of pedestrian safety; the ebikes are riding in the road, where all the other bikes ride because there’s nowhere else. Every MUP I’ve ever been on (in other states) has a speed limit far lower than most people can easily exceed on any regular bike; presumably those that do exist somewhere in NJ are similar.

[dmitrik4]

Originally Posted by Ralph

I spend a lot of riding time on our multi use trails. And one can encounter all kinds of users. As you guys know. Personally....I don't think any E bikes with throttles or ability to go over 20 MPH (when pedaling) should be allowed. I know on my wife's Electra class 1 E bike with pedal assist only, it won't go over 19 MPH when pedaling on level ground. It might go faster if coasting down a steep hill....which we don't have.

Similar hill deal here in south NJ, but in Seattle my wife’s Rad (with a scary throttle) wouldn’t touch 20mph even on downhills; if I pedaled as hard as I could to overcome the motor (which at that point is working against you), I think I saw 21 once for a few seconds. On my regular town bike I’d always need to wait for her.

[5oakterrace]

In the next years the issue with ebikes will not necessarily be fatalities, although some are inevitable as one of the posters noted. The issue, in my mind, will be injuries from accidents. I think they measure this by trips to the emergency room. A lot of e bikes will be operated responsibly. Fine. But the temptation to go fast, and the ability to go fast will be the problem.

I do not know how to describe it - but on a conventional bike you can go fast but usually not from day one. You work up to that, gain skills along the way and are exposed to and respect the dangers, so to speak. On an ebike you have that potential to go fast from day one and do not necessarily develop all that experience. Older riders, one would presume, should be wiser and more careful. Maybe. The temptations for younger folks can be "too much," as one poster illustrated. Putting a cap on the speed is an idea but that cat is already out of the bag. Registering ebikes is an idea but parents will still allow youngsters to use them. Messy. I do not doubt some conventional bikers, in some areas, will ride less often. I know I would think twice before riding if I knew I was going to be surrounded by folks flying around me in ebikes.

[merckxman]

Update on NJ Senate bill S2292:
https://njbwc.org/bill-s2292/

[bicycletricycle]

I think E-bikes are going to be difficult to integrate into our current infrastructure.

They are a problem on the road but a much bigger problem on bike paths and trails.

If they get popular enough I think in the end a license and insurance will be inevitable.

I don’t think they should be allowed at all on trails and paths, too fast tp be in close proximity to pedestrians. Heck, lots of cyclist go too fast for trails and paths.

More clearly defining different classes of them would help but because they all look the same it will be hard to enforce and the pressure to throw them all in one bucket will be pretty big. I think the 50cc moped thing gets a pass because almost nobody uses them .

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by bicycletricycle

I think E-bikes are going to be difficult to integrate into our current infrastructure.

They are a problem on the road but a much bigger problem on bike paths and trails.

If they get popular enough I think in the end a license and insurance will be inevitable.

I don’t think they should be allowed at all on trails and paths, too fast tp be in close proximity to pedestrians. Heck, lots of cyclist go too fast for trails and paths.

More clearly defining different classes of them would help but because they all look the same it will be hard to enforce and the pressure to throw them all in one bucket will be pretty big. I think the 50cc moped thing gets a pass because almost nobody uses them .

I think the lack of easy distinction by eye is the big problem, and will likely become a bigger problem as motor and battery development allows more power/range in a smaller package. With internal combustion engines, it was pretty easy to distinguish between a motorcycle, a moped, and a pedal bicycle (by both eye and ear). There currently are 3 generally recognized e-bike categories, the fastest of which overlap with mopeds, but you can't distinguish between e-bikes of different categories by eye. Indeed, there are some e-bikes where the same basic hardware is sold in multiple different class configurations, and even some that can be converted between the different classes by changing software settings. If you let e-bikes on the bike path or on sidewalks, how will you stop people riding something that looks like any other e-bike, but is is a fast and powerful as a moped?

(Also, I wish people would stop associating the term "moped" with internal combustion engines. There are electric powered bikes just as fast and powerful as internal combustion mopeds, and which meet the definition of a moped, and should be treated as a moped. It is true that many states have laws that limit mopeds to 49cc engines - but that is not the only definition of a moped in these laws. The law also distinguishes mopeds by motor assist speed, which therefore makes many e-bikes de facto mopeds.)

[Alistair]

Originally Posted by Mark McM

(Also, I wish people would stop associating the term "moped" with internal combustion engines. There are electric powered bikes just as fast and powerful as internal combustion mopeds, and which meet the definition of a moped, and should be treated as a moped. It is true that many states have laws that limit mopeds to 49cc engines - but that is not the only definition of a moped in these laws. The law also distinguishes mopeds by motor assist speed, which therefore makes many e-bikes de facto mopeds.)

This.

In VA, e-bike is defined as adhering to the 3-class system commonly used elsewhere (20 or 28mm depending on throttle, <750W, etc).

Mopeds are defined as 50cc or less OR 1500W or less, and excluding e-bikes. So, any of those super-fast electric bikes that will go 30mph or have more than 750W motors are mopeds by law in VA. Of course, that doesn’t stop Amazon selling them without registration, as is also required by VA law.