Shimano Dura-Ace 12 Speed.

[oldpotatoe]

Originally Posted by NHAero

As best as I can count from the photo, that looks like a 11-32 cassette, and a longer cage RD. I wonder if the pull ratio will stay the same so the 12 speed RD could be used in an 11 speed setup.
I'm using a RD-R9100 on the Firefly with the 11-34 cassette and it works fine. I am fond of this cassette because it has two tooth steps all the way from 17 to 27, which is where I'm riding most of the time. So if 12 speed DA was to offer a similar cassette that added a 38T I'd get interested. Most likely, they'll go the Campy route and add one more one tooth step to the top end.
Those cranks are fugly, look like a Honda Civic, but I've thought every DA crank after 7700 was ugly, and same with Campy after ten speed. Of the more modern cranks I prefer the SRAM Red 22.

Di2? Doubt it. This group 'could be backward compatible with 11s but that's not very shimano-esque..or anybody else for that matter. Particularly since shimano 12s needs ANOTHER freehub body 'standard'..yikes..all those wheels that can't be converted to microspline..ouch.

[reuben]

Originally Posted by jkbrwn

Gopping. Hilariously ugly.

Are current gruppos ugly?

[NHAero]

I'm thinking mechanical.
And one reason I went with Dt240 hubs on the BTLOS wheels I have here for the incoming Strong is that DT seems to be amongst the best in designing their hubs to not go obsolete. So maybe my new wheels will go microspline if needs be?

Originally Posted by oldpotatoe

Di2? Doubt it. This group 'could be backward compatible with 11s but that's not very shimano-esque..or anybody else for that matter. Particularly since shimano 12s needs ANOTHER freehub body 'standard'..yikes..all those wheels that can't be converted to microspline..ouch.

[pasadena]

Looks pretty cool to me. I like how slim the mechs are. Rear looks pretty cool,imo

The crank/chainring setup looks like the common CX setup where they use aftermarket rings and plastic finisher caps on the spider.

I'm sure Shimano will have a hollowtech type of ring like the current DA.


Only thing that I don't like is how tall the hoods are but maybe with a battery and hydro resi, it's just the limitations of space.

Hopefully there is a rim brake version with normal Shimano size hoods....

Originally Posted by JeffWarner

Might be close....

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/s...ura-ace-r9200/


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[batman1425]

I'm betting the crank design to a (what looks to be at least) symmetric design was to remedy the power meter instability problems. Doesn't look the greatest in the spy shots but maybe DS arms will measure more accurately on this.

[EB]

Coming soon to a shop near you in 2024

[EB]

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

Coming soon to a shop near you in 2024

Longer version - it’s pointless moaning about the upgrade issues as you won’t see this group (or it’s lower tier derivatives) on anything but OEM spec for several years, unless you’re really really luck. Hell, I bet Mike Sinyard has already filled all available orders through 2023.

[Matt92037]

This will certainly be the case. Any bugs should be worked out by the time it is available through our LBS.

Originally Posted by Eli Bingham

Longer version - it’s pointless moaning about the upgrade issues as you won’t see this group (or it’s lower tier derivatives) on anything but OEM spec for several years, unless you’re really really luck. Hell, I bet Mike Sinyard has already filled all available orders through 2023.

[Velocipede]

I got spanked when I posted that last bit of info about the DA 12. That's why that thread got removed.

[bthomas515]

https://youtu.be/s7mgVT16tHQ

I just watched this. Don’t know about sweeping changes yet to anything but

[dddd]

Originally Posted by joevers

I would guess those are absolutely not the chainrings that are going to end up on production R9200.

I have a suspicion that the rings may be actual parts, conspicuously like Campy's.

The reason may be that controlled flex of the ring at the outer periphery might reduce cross-chain friction by allowing the teeth to lean a bit, better allowing the chain to flow into mesh with the chain under heavy side-loading conditions.

Actually I've been waiting for single-ring bikes to adopt chainrings with relatively massive amounts of lateral flex in order to reduce cross-chaining friction.

I experienced this effect on old three-arm cranks where the big ring did flex quite considerably while cross-chained, and noticed that the cross-chained chain's rumble seemed muted under heavier loading.

I've mentioned here (and elsewhere) before how I thought that cross-chaining friction is something that will be seriously addressed in the future on racing bikes, perhaps with multiple chainrings being electronically shifted (specifically to reduce friction).

[NHAero]

My old TA Cyclotouriste large ring certainly had lateral flex

Originally Posted by dddd

I have a suspicion that the rings may be actual parts, conspicuously like Campy's.

The reason may be that controlled flex of the ring at the outer periphery might reduce cross-chain friction by allowing the teeth to lean a bit, better allowing the chain to flow into mesh with the chain under heavy side-loading conditions.

Actually I've been waiting for single-ring bikes to adopt chainrings with relatively massive amounts of lateral flex in order to reduce cross-chaining friction.

I experienced this effect on old three-arm cranks where the big ring did flex quite considerably while cross-chained, and noticed that the cross-chained chain's rumble seemed muted under heavier loading.

I've mentioned here (and elsewhere) before how I thought that cross-chaining friction is something that will be seriously addressed in the future on racing bikes, perhaps with multiple chainrings being electronically shifted (specifically to reduce friction).

[Mark McM]

Originally Posted by dddd

The reason may be that controlled flex of the ring at the outer periphery might reduce cross-chain friction by allowing the teeth to lean a bit, better allowing the chain to flow into mesh with the chain under heavy side-loading conditions.

Interesting thought, but for years the component makers have been trying ti increase chainring lateral stiffness to improve shifting. My suspicion has been that component makers optimize their groups for the point of sale "parking lot test"*, in which case snappy front shifting will be more noticeable than a small increase in cross-chaining friction.



*This is the only reason I can think of that Shimano attempted to foist reverse action rear derailleurs on the public, not once by twice (one called "Rapid-Rise", and another called "low normal"). Reverse action derailleurs produce very smooth shifts even with poor user technique, but can be balky under high torque, and more quickly suffer degraded performance on dirty drivertrains - in other words, their best use is inexperienced riders on short test rides.

[joevers]

Originally Posted by dddd

I have a suspicion that the rings may be actual parts, conspicuously like Campy's.

The reason may be that controlled flex of the ring at the outer periphery might reduce cross-chain friction by allowing the teeth to lean a bit, better allowing the chain to flow into mesh with the chain under heavy side-loading conditions.

Actually I've been waiting for single-ring bikes to adopt chainrings with relatively massive amounts of lateral flex in order to reduce cross-chaining friction.

I experienced this effect on old three-arm cranks where the big ring did flex quite considerably while cross-chained, and noticed that the cross-chained chain's rumble seemed muted under heavier loading.

I've mentioned here (and elsewhere) before how I thought that cross-chaining friction is something that will be seriously addressed in the future on racing bikes, perhaps with multiple chainrings being electronically shifted (specifically to reduce friction).

Shimano chainrings are notoriously the stiffest out there. No way they'd go back from that I think. There is much that could improve with the chains though. And that last part, that's all synchro shift is. People don't really use it on the road but you used to have to to run their mtb di2 setups. Instead of crosschaining it just shifts the front for you in addition to the rear derailleur to get you the next sequential gear.

[BdaGhisallo]

Originally Posted by batman1425

I'm betting the crank design to a (what looks to be at least) symmetric design was to remedy the power meter instability problems. Doesn't look the greatest in the spy shots but maybe DS arms will measure more accurately on this.

Spot on.