Zwift 'racing'

[jb_11]

DC Rainmaker had a good write up on the current state of Zwift racing yesterday:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2019/02/...t-esports.html

He cover's it in his article, but Aus. just awarded real national championship jerseys/medals to two competitors who rode remotely. That's a bit nuts with the current state of the technology.

Oh, and you definitely have to be ramped up to pretty high watts before the start timer hits 0 to make the break.

There are also different levels of draft effect, depending on how the event is setup.
https://zwiftinsider.com/double-draft/

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

Well, you do have to peddle your bike.

If it were only about having the peddle (sic) your bike, Chris Boardman would have won a lot of Tours. There’s a lot more to successful racing than just putting out raw numbers. Real racing involves a lot of planning and strategy and bike skills and thinking. Not saying the great Chris Boardman can’t do all of these things but Zwift racing appears to be largely a number game and a real bicycle race is far more than just numbers.

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy Zwift very much. And if folks love the racing on Zwift and the events it’s all good. It’s probably just left me behind.

It’s a fantastic app and a great training tool and video game. Not hating on Zwift. Just not sure the races are my bag.

[avalonracing]

Originally Posted by saab2000

Real racing involves a lot of planning and strategy and bike skills and thinking. Not saying the great Chris Boardman can’t do all of these things but Zwift racing appears to be largely a number game and a real bicycle race is far more than just numbers.

It's also why there are all these guys who can't ride for sh*t in a group. They have started riding within the last couple of years and haven't been taught pack riding skills or etiquette by people who have experience. They are like bottle rockets. All power and no control.

[GregL]

Originally Posted by avalonracing

It's also why there are all these guys who can't ride for sh*t in a group. They have started riding within the last couple of years and haven't been taught pack riding skills or etiquette by people who have experience. They are like bottle rockets. All power and no control.

Winner! For all the negativity heaped on masters racing on this forum, one of the best things about it (at least in my corner of the world) is strong pack skills. People who know how to safely ride in a fast pack and want to be in one piece when they go to work on Monday.

Greg

[echappist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

If it were only about having the peddle (sic) your bike, Chris Boardman would have won a lot of Tours. There’s a lot more to successful racing than just putting out raw numbers. Real racing involves a lot of planning and strategy and bike skills and thinking. Not saying the great Chris Boardman can’t do all of these things but Zwift racing appears to be largely a number game and a real bicycle race is far more than just numbers.

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy Zwift very much. And if folks love the racing on Zwift and the events it’s all good. It’s probably just left me behind.

It’s a fantastic app and a great training tool and video game. Not hating on Zwift. Just not sure the races are my bag.

you perhaps picked the wrong person to illustrate your points. Naturally low-T levels, competing clean in the era of EPO, etc. Dude did smash it in TTs and IP though

road racing certainly is more than just numbers, but a lot of it is predicated upon numbers. as such, Zwift does at least a passing job as a verisimilitude of racing, despite its flaws.

One flaw that real racing does have and Zwift does not, of course, are the crashes and collateral damages therefrom. I very much doubt i'll flip over the bars while racing in Zwift

[saab2000]

Originally Posted by echappist

One flaw that real racing does have and Zwift does not, of course, are the crashes and collateral damages therefrom. I very much doubt i'll flip over the bars while racing in Zwift

And whose fault is this? Is this the fault of the racer or of an electronic application?

Handling a bicycle is part of bicycle racing. I enjoy Zwift and it can be an enjoyable application for wattage measurements in a highly controlled (and easily manipulated) environment but it is not by a long shot racing a bicycle.

Bicycle racing has, by its very nature, a bit of skin in the game as they say. Zwift is, by definition, a video game.

[echappist]

Originally Posted by saab2000

And whose fault is this? Is this the fault of the racer or of an electronic application?

Handling a bicycle is part of bicycle racing. I enjoy Zwift and it can be an enjoyable application for wattage measurements in a highly controlled (and easily manipulated) environment but it is not by a long shot racing a bicycle.

Bicycle racing has, by its very nature, a bit of skin in the game as they say. Zwift is, by definition, a video game.

Whether or not you'd consider Zwift racing is irrelevant. It has enough the elements of bike racing to render it a at least semi-decent replacement. And because there is almost no chance of gruesome crashes, that will be one of its draws, whether or not you deem it real enough for your own liking.

Rather absurd you'd attribute being crashed out to a lack of skills, as if people don't get crashed due to fault of others... Quite specious of a comment. Chances of going over the bar could be due to one's own mistake or that of others (or even malicious intent). Zwift eliminates that risk, and is a draw whether or not you think it dilutes things.

As an aside, just to be sure here, are you insinuating it's my fault? If so, that'd be rather callous. I got crashed out by someone who swerved from the middle of the lane to the side, which took out someone between me and the idiot. Really no time to respond, and no skill would have prevented it. Everyone at the scene knew whose fault it was.

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by saab2000

If it were only about having the peddle (sic) [sic] your bike, Chris Boardman would have won a lot of Tours. There’s a lot more to successful racing than just putting out raw numbers. Real racing involves a lot of planning and strategy and bike skills and thinking. Not saying the great Chris Boardman can’t do all of these things but Zwift racing appears to be largely a number game and a real bicycle race is far more than just numbers.

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy Zwift very much. And if folks love the racing on Zwift and the events it’s all good. It’s probably just left me behind.

It’s a fantastic app and a great training tool and video game. Not hating on Zwift. Just not sure the races are my bag.

But video games don't simulate anything about auto-racing, while Zwift gaming improves the physical strength required to race bikes irl.

I must have looked at my post for like 3 minutes thinking, "why does pedaling look wrong?" And then I was still looking after your notation and couldn't see it. Must be spending too much time in the classifieds.

[ergott]

Originally Posted by 93KgBike

But video games don't simulate anything about auto-racing,

Tell that to these guys.

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/

There have been drivers that were discovered by their "video game" driving on Gran Turismo.

[93KgBike]

Originally Posted by ergott

Tell that to these guys.

https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/academy/

There have been drivers that were discovered by their "video game" driving on Gran Turismo.

[GregL]

Interesting thread. My $0.02: Zwift is a fitness test based on cycling, but it is not bike racing. Bike racing has more fitness elements that are not needed on Zwift. The comparison to auto racing video games is interesting. I'll submit that unless the simulator provides tactile feedback and motion, it is a test of hand-eye coordination and human-computer interface. It's more of a procedures trainer than a true simulator. Add full-motion and feedback like a true flight simulator and then I'll find it more realistic. As I'm sure the other professional pilots on the forum will agree, a level C or D flight simulator is so real that you come out of a sim session tired and sweaty!

Greg

[makoti]

Originally Posted by redir

BTW I had no idea that the virtual bikes mattered. I got the steel one with the DT shifters becasue I thought it looked cool

That's the one I use for my training, along with box rims. I can get the speed/mileage to mimic the real world in a given time frame pretty well. If I am riding with a group, I use one of the aero bikes & aero wheelsets I've earned by sitting on my actual bike long enough. Makes a big difference in keeping up.

[redir]

Originally Posted by saab2000

If it were only about having the peddle (sic) your bike, Chris Boardman would have won a lot of Tours. There’s a lot more to successful racing than just putting out raw numbers. Real racing involves a lot of planning and strategy and bike skills and thinking. Not saying the great Chris Boardman can’t do all of these things but Zwift racing appears to be largely a number game and a real bicycle race is far more than just numbers.

Don’t get me wrong. I enjoy Zwift very much. And if folks love the racing on Zwift and the events it’s all good. It’s probably just left me behind.

It’s a fantastic app and a great training tool and video game. Not hating on Zwift. Just not sure the races are my bag.

Absolutely and I can speak to that from experience. Cyclocross was always my main discipline. I decided after a few years of racing cross to try road racing. Because of cross I started as a cat 4 and jumped right into racing road. I was strong enough but it took me 3 years of racing cat 4 before I actually 'got it.' Then I moved up the cat's in one year. Lets not forget too that road racing is a team sport. Even as a cat 4 I had a team and we actually raced as one.

Originally Posted by echappist

One flaw that real racing does have and Zwift does not, of course, are the crashes and collateral damages therefrom. I very much doubt i'll flip over the bars while racing in Zwift

Well, I ride Zwift on the rollers and I actually did crash once

[unterhausen]

I have never crashed on my rollers, but it's definitely possible. I may have ridden off the side and caught myself once. I rode my bike off of my kickr twice, fortunately no damage to anything. Then I put an internal cam quick release on it.