Serotta Serial Number Question - HG??

[coolplanetbikes]

Hi All,
I've got a Ti/Carbon Serotta here with serial# HG 56 063. I'm not familiar with the HG designation and it's not on the "Serial Numbers Decoded" thread.

I'm thinking that is must be a Ottrott or Nove. The carbon weave is different from others I've seen. See pics.

[Keith A]

Serotta had an "HG" series for a short period of time. This stood for High Speed Geometry. IIRC, they had a couple material options in the is series which included full carbon and Ti/Carbon. I can't recall if they had full Ti or steel in the HG series, but I'm sure others can fill in the blanks.

[93svt96]

I cant help with your question but that is very nice!!! Another one of your awesome builds.

Ken

[Keith A]

Well it looks like my original assumption about the "HG" in the serial number might not be correct. In searching on this forum, it seems that the following are the HSG frameset designations:
HB - HSG in carbon
SP - HSG in Ti

[Brian Smith]

That's an HSG Ti/Carbon frame. The "stay" and tubes are a different carbon layup, evidenced by the 12k weave pattern outer layer, and were a bit more economy priced as compared to the Ottrot/Meivici tubes. 30.9 post recommended.

[coolplanetbikes]

Thanks all. I didn't know they made a Ti/Carbon HSG, you learn something new every day. That must be it!

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by coolplanetbikes

Thanks all. I didn't know they made a Ti/Carbon HSG, you learn something new every day. That must be it!

Serial number HG 54 056 is hanging in my garage right now, awaiting the funds to re-clearcoat the carbon tubes and build it up as it deserves. I thought of it (when contemplating the recent purchase) as a Ottrott-on-a-budget, with the added benefit of knowing the geometry and ride characteristics up front (not always possible with the full-custom Ottrott).

As stated above - yours is a HSG IT, just like mine.

As an aside, there were also full steel HSG frames - I have a CX version here as well.

ETA - my 54cm version is DEFINITELY a 27.2 seatpost diameter, not 30.9 as stated above.

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

Serial number HG 54 056 is hanging in my garage right now, awaiting the funds to re-clearcoat the carbon tubes and build it up as it deserves. I thought of it (when contemplating the recent purchase) as a Ottrott-on-a-budget, with the added benefit of knowing the geometry and ride characteristics up front (not always possible with the full-custom Ottrott).

As stated above - yours is a HSG IT, just like mine.

As an aside, there were also full steel HSG frames - I have a CX version here as well.

ETA - my 54cm version is DEFINITELY a 27.2 seatpost diameter, not 30.9 as stated above.

Hi tommy,

Thanks for pointing out, the correct model name of these Ti/Carbon bikes was HSG IT.
I worked at Serotta during the breadth of the HSG moniker's usage, but it's been a while and some details may slip away from memory from time to time.

Among the steel bikes receiving that moniker were ONLY cyclocross frames.
Regarding seat post diameters of the HSG IT, the frames were shipped including an aluminum shim to make the 30.9 titanium seat tube I.D. accept a 27.2 seat post. I was recommending jettisoning the shim and using a 30.9 post. All Serotta frames so built tended to accumulate a stacking of tolerances which led to a poorer appearance once the seat post was installed and the clamp tightened, as well as slippage in some cases. Additionally, saddle height adjustments became a bit more fiddly, as the shim tends to move upward and rotationally with the post, requiring an extra finger or two to keep/move the shim where you want it. At the time of production of these models, the availability of 30.9 seatposts was not as broad as it is today, and there was a desire to accommodate the breadth of seat post options available in the 27.2 size. These days, the situation is different.

I like your characterization of the HSG IT as an Ottrot on a budget. It's worth bearing in mind that the budget nature of the carbon parts in the HSG and Fierte lineups were significantly less damage resistant than those in the Ottrot and Meivici lines. The pre-painted finish on that tubing was also more prone to chipping, which may contribute to an increased frequency of refinishing needs.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

Hi tommy,

Thanks for pointing out, the correct model name of these Ti/Carbon bikes was HSG IT.
I worked at Serotta during the breadth of the HSG moniker's usage, but it's been a while and some details may slip away from memory from time to time.

Among the steel bikes receiving that moniker were ONLY cyclocross frames.
Regarding seat post diameters of the HSG IT, the frames were shipped including an aluminum shim to make the 30.9 titanium seat tube I.D. accept a 27.2 seat post. I was recommending jettisoning the shim and using a 30.9 post. All Serotta frames so built tended to accumulate a stacking of tolerances which led to a poorer appearance once the seat post was installed and the clamp tightened, as well as slippage in some cases. Additionally, saddle height adjustments became a bit more fiddly, as the shim tends to move upward and rotationally with the post, requiring an extra finger or two to keep/move the shim where you want it. At the time of production of these models, the availability of 30.9 seatposts was not as broad as it is today, and there was a desire to accommodate the breadth of seat post options available in the 27.2 size. These days, the situation is different.

I like your characterization of the HSG IT as an Ottrot on a budget. It's worth bearing in mind that the budget nature of the carbon parts in the HSG and Fierte lineups were significantly less damage resistant than those in the Ottrot and Meivici lines. The pre-painted finish on that tubing was also more prone to chipping, which may contribute to an increased frequency of refinishing needs.

Thanks for the information from someone who was there when they were being made

Out of curiosity - would you characterize the carbon used in these models as inferior to what was generally used in the marketplace, or just inferior to the Ottrott and Meivici carbon? Should I be concerned about damage to the carbon going forward, beyond the (admittedly minimal) clearcoat lifting, which appears to be merely cosmetic?

I checked the seattube and, yep - it's a shim. I'll grab a 30.9 post when I build it up, thanks for the heads up.

Thanks, as I'm hoping this will be a sweet rig once refinished.

Also - my HSG steel is a very nice ride.

ETA: while I'm bothering you (and apologies in advance) - would you consider this model to be equivalent to the Nove, or significantly different?

Thanks,

Tommy

[93svt96]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

Hi tommy,

Thanks for pointing out, the correct model name of these Ti/Carbon bikes was HSG IT.
I worked at Serotta during the breadth of the HSG moniker's usage, but it's been a while and some details may slip away from memory from time to time.

Among the steel bikes receiving that moniker were ONLY cyclocross frames.
Regarding seat post diameters of the HSG IT, the frames were shipped including an aluminum shim to make the 30.9 titanium seat tube I.D. accept a 27.2 seat post. I was recommending jettisoning the shim and using a 30.9 post. All Serotta frames so built tended to accumulate a stacking of tolerances which led to a poorer appearance once the seat post was installed and the clamp tightened, as well as slippage in some cases. Additionally, saddle height adjustments became a bit more fiddly, as the shim tends to move upward and rotationally with the post, requiring an extra finger or two to keep/move the shim where you want it. At the time of production of these models, the availability of 30.9 seatposts was not as broad as it is today, and there was a desire to accommodate the breadth of seat post options available in the 27.2 size. These days, the situation is different.

I like your characterization of the HSG IT as an Ottrot on a budget. It's worth bearing in mind that the budget nature of the carbon parts in the HSG and Fierte lineups were significantly less damage resistant than those in the Ottrot and Meivici lines. The pre-painted finish on that tubing was also more prone to chipping, which may contribute to an increased frequency of refinishing needs.

Can you give me any info on this Meivici serial # ? I cant find anything about it.

[bart998]

My HSG Carbon's serial number starts HB 56 ###

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by tommyrod74

Thanks for the information from someone who was there when they were being made

Out of curiosity - would you characterize the carbon used in these models as inferior to what was generally used in the marketplace, or just inferior to the Ottrott and Meivici carbon? Should I be concerned about damage to the carbon going forward, beyond the (admittedly minimal) clearcoat lifting, which appears to be merely cosmetic?

I checked the seattube and, yep - it's a shim. I'll grab a 30.9 post when I build it up, thanks for the heads up.

Thanks, as I'm hoping this will be a sweet rig once refinished.

Also - my HSG steel is a very nice ride.

ETA: while I'm bothering you (and apologies in advance) - would you consider this model to be equivalent to the Nove, or significantly different?

Thanks,

Tommy

The introduction of the HSG IT followed that of the Nove, and as you guessed it, was a close equivalent. The materials, in some cases, were identical.

Yes, you should be concerned about damage to the carbon going forward. During the early period, some of the riveted cable guides and their riveted fasteners were likely to corrode, and clear coat problems sometimes started in these areas. The cable stops themselves and the aluminum bosses at the dropout might be un-anodized, and at any of those locations there could be resulting unintended contact between carbon and aluminum. The tubing itself may not have been inferior to what else existed and/or continues to exist in the consumer sporting goods marketplace, but that doesn't mean that it's what you'd ideally like to have. Let's just say that the tubing itself can be flexed in a workstand, or in some cases by hand, further than the elastic range of most clear paint. Treat it as if it's fragile, and if only loaded in the way that riding a bicycle loads it, the tubing will deliver long lasting performance. If a shovel falls off your garage wall onto it, there's no assurance that it will withstand that abuse the way that a traditional bike would, or that a Meivici/Ottrot would.

[Brian Smith]

Originally Posted by bart998

My HSG Carbon's serial number starts HB 56 ###

HSG Carbon was a different model from the HSG IT and used different serial number text.
I prefer the later model HSG Carbon models after the "size" of the frame was omitted from the serial numbers, but the HSG Carbon didn't use the same tubing as the HSG IT. The HSG Carbon is "shovel fall" approved.

[tommyrod74]

Originally Posted by Brian Smith

The introduction of the HSG IT followed that of the Nove, and as you guessed it, was a close equivalent. The materials, in some cases, were identical.

Yes, you should be concerned about damage to the carbon going forward. During the early period, some of the riveted cable guides and their riveted fasteners were likely to corrode, and clear coat problems sometimes started in these areas. The cable stops themselves and the aluminum bosses at the dropout might be un-anodized, and at any of those locations there could be resulting unintended contact between carbon and aluminum. The tubing itself may not have been inferior to what else existed and/or continues to exist in the consumer sporting goods marketplace, but that doesn't mean that it's what you'd ideally like to have. Let's just say that the tubing itself can be flexed in a workstand, or in some cases by hand, further than the elastic range of most clear paint. Treat it as if it's fragile, and if only loaded in the way that riding a bicycle loads it, the tubing will deliver long lasting performance. If a shovel falls off your garage wall onto it, there's no assurance that it will withstand that abuse the way that a traditional bike would, or that a Meivici/Ottrot would.

Might it be better to have a frame refinisher simply remove the clearcoat and leave it bare, to avoid future issues with paint loss?

[coolplanetbikes]

Thanks for all this info y'all. This one has some clearcoat problems and would benefit from a refinish. Which is a shame because the rest of the frame is in excellent shape.