2018 potential new build: Ultegra R8000 vs Chorus?

[tylercheung]

I guess wading into another political topic, but musing over a potential new (theoretical) build.

Now the New and Improved (tm!) Shimano ultegra R8000 is out...this has reignited the debate in my mind between building w/ this vs. Chorus 2015+. From what I can tell, they both are excellent.


At any rate. Ultegra R8000 set can be had for ~$350 less than Chorus, but is a smidge heavier. I guess maybe it comes down to aesthetics, shifter shape, levers and feel, and whether or not you can have a 32t cassette as well...

At any rate, my experiences on current/former bikes have been:

Ultegra 6800 - my usual bike - I like it a lot (probably also b/c most fastidiously maintained). super quiet, nice snappy shifts.
Ultegra R8000/disc - good, but I feel like it still needs to be "broken in". Getting better over time as noise gremlins get worked out.
Campy Athena 11 - actually pretty good once I got the LBS to readjust the RD. Shifts "Snappy" as has been described re: campy, and also very very quiet.
Campy Record 10s - tbh not as good as athena, but I suspect I need to get it serviced...


Please reprimand me if I inadvertently start another flame war...

ps as an aside... I also suspect I may have found out the deal re: shimano crank failures...the FD has very little clearance inside the crank, and if the cable is too slack will score the inside of the shimano cranks just where all the Internet pictures show breakages....

[Hilltopperny]

I have newer chorus on both of my non disc road bikes and it is excellent. Probably my favorite group for my non disc bikes. I also have two bikes inbound with the new 8020. I have 6800 with 785 disc levers on my winter build and it works wonderful as well, but I have always preferred campy ever since trying it out years ago.

I don't think you can go wrong either way and I think they are both the best bang for buck groups available from either manufacturer.

[FlashUNC]

Chorus.

[R3awak3n]

r8000 is very nice, there is no doubt but compared to chorus, it feels cheap and is much uglier.

I just set up partial r8000 and new chorus. Both are nice and work well. The shiman is soft, clicks are quite and soft, at first I didn't even feel the bike was shifting. Some might like this, I prefer the sure mechanical clicks of chorus.

I also like the way chorus looks, the hoods are so much nice, the smaller shifters are my preference. The group belongs on a road bike while the shimano looks good only on some bikes. Its also way more plasticy.

You can't go wrong with either but if you have the money, go chorus (which is imo the best campy group out right now, great deal, looks better than record/SR because it doesnt have red)

[Clean39T]

Chorus, but try to find a take-off group or lightly used so you can get it for less than R8000...

And I believe there’s a mid-cage option to get you to 32, but tbh, if I needed gears that low, I’d go subcompact up front and keep tighter gears in the back.

[Wayne77]

For me its basically a toss-up. The newer gen Campy cranks are ugly (maybe its just me). So now they rival the Ultegra cranks in terms of ugliness....again just me. A few other factors

* Wear items - cassettes & chains - Shimano/Sram is cheaper. That's why with my Campy groups I NEVER replace with Campy chains. KMC quick-links chains are every bit as good, just as light, and don't require that stupid $90 campy chain tool. Maybe that's changed recently... Chorus cassettes are way overpriced for what you get (IMO)
* May not matter to you, but its nice to have cassettes & freehub bodies that are more widely swappable with other wheelsets, your friends wheelsets, wheels and cassettes you buy from locals, avail at shops, emergency last minute swaps pre-race, etc. My locale would never be accused of having a cycling demographic with the finer Campy tastes...90% of people around here race Shimano or Sram. That factor may or may not matter to you.
* The Campy thumb shifter w/the full dump feature on the higher end groups ROCKS. I miss being able to dump nearly the entire cassette a lot (I use DA9000 currently)
* IMO, EPS ergonomics are better than Di2. I used a Di2 bike in Belgium over the cobbles and the tiny buttons were unusable when things get crazy bumpy
* Some people prefer the more solid 'thunk' when shifting you get with Campy, some the slick, silent feel of Shimano. I slightly prefer the Campy feel personally. For me at least my Shimano front derailleurs shift much better than the two versions of Chorus (10 and 11 speed) I've had in the past. Maybe new Campy has improved front shifting.
* Shimano front der setup (at least with DA9000) is a pain in the @ss. My campy front ders (again maybe user error on my part) always seem so much easier to adjust.
* Getting a campy part when you need one quick is a total crap shoot at my local bike shops. Shimano/Sram not so much.
* Oh yeah, one thing I love about the newer gen Shimano cranks is you don't need a different crank to switch between compact and standard chain rings. Halle-Freakin-luja!!

If it were me, with my own particular preferences that don't always make sense to the purists, I would get a very slightly used 9000 or 9100 group and run a different crank if the crank aesthetics bug you. Should be quite a bit lighter than Chorus or Ultegra. For some reason I like the 9000 crank...a little more svelte looking than the R9100, R8000 look. The main reason I say that is wear items. I put a lot of miles on cassettes. I like paying $70 for a Force cassette that is just as light, works just as well, and much cheaper than a Chorus cassette.

That said...if wear items for high mile training, intercompatibility with your local bros, replace on demand-ability is less of a concern and you're building up your cork-sniffer-dream build-that represents everything that is right about cycling heritage - Go Campy....just try not to look at that crank too closely :-)

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by Wayne77

For me its basically a toss-up. The newer gen Campy cranks are ugly (maybe its just me). So now they rival the Ultegra cranks in terms of ugliness....again just me. A few other factors

* Wear items - cassettes & chains - Shimano/Sram is cheaper. That's why with my Campy groups I NEVER replace with Campy chains. KMC quick-links chains are every bit as good, just as light, and don't require that stupid $90 campy chain tool. Maybe that's changed recently... Chorus cassettes are way overpriced for what you get (IMO)
* May not matter to you, but its nice to have cassettes & freehub bodies that are more widely swappable with other wheelsets, your friends wheelsets, wheels and cassettes you buy from locals, avail at shops, emergency last minute swaps pre-race, etc. My locale would never be accused of having a cycling demographic with the finer Campy tastes...90% of people around here race Shimano or Sram. That factor may or may not matter to you.
* The Campy thumb shifter w/the full dump feature on the higher end groups ROCKS. I miss being able to dump nearly the entire cassette a lot (I use DA9000 currently)
* IMO, EPS ergonomics are better than Di2. I used a Di2 bike in Belgium over the cobbles and the tiny buttons were unusable when things get crazy bumpy
* Some people prefer the more solid 'thunk' when shifting you get with Campy, some the slick, silent feel of Shimano. I slightly prefer the Campy feel personally. For me at least my Shimano front derailleurs shift much better than the two versions of Chorus (10 and 11 speed) I've had in the past. Maybe new Campy has improved front shifting.
* Shimano front der setup (at least with DA9000) is a pain in the @ss. My campy front ders (again maybe user error on my part) always seem so much easier to adjust.
* Getting a campy part when you need one quick is a total crap shoot at my local bike shops. Shimano/Sram not so much.
* Oh yeah, one thing I love about the newer gen Shimano cranks is you don't need a different crank to switch between compact and standard chain rings. Halle-Freakin-luja!!

If it were me, with my own particular preferences that don't always make sense to the purists, I would get a very slightly used 9000 or 9100 group and run a different crank if the crank aesthetics bug you. Should be quite a bit lighter than Chorus or Ultegra. For some reason I like the 9000 crank...a little more svelte looking than the R9100, R8000 look. The main reason I say that is wear items. I put a lot of miles on cassettes. I like paying $70 for a Force cassette that is just as light, works just as well, and much cheaper than a Chorus cassette.

That said...if wear items for high mile training, intercompatibility with your local bros, replace on demand-ability is less of a concern and you're building up your cork-sniffer-dream build-that represents everything that is right about cycling heritage - Go Campy....just try not to look at that crank too closely :-)

A couple of points to correct here. You can run any 11 speed cassette from any maker on campy and visa versa. The cog spacing is the same. If you have 11 speed compatible Shimano wheels run 105 or Ultegra cassettes or Sram.

As for the campy cranks there is only 1 bcd now and the same cranks accept all chain ring combos just like Shimano.

As for running a 34 tooth cassette just pick up a potenza rd with the longer cage. The standard chorus will run up to 30 teeth with no issue.

[Wayne77]

Originally Posted by Black Dog

A couple of points to correct here. You can run any 11 speed cassette from any maker on campy and visa versa. The cog spacing is the same. If you have 11 speed compatible Shimano wheels run 105 or Ultegra cassettes or Sram.

As for the campy cranks there is only 1 bcd now and the same cranks accept all chain ring combos just like Shimano.

As for running a 34 tooth cassette just pick up a potenza rd with the longer cage. The standard chorus will run up to 30 teeth with no issue.

Thanks for the clarifications. I didn't know that about the newer Campy cranks. That's great to hear. I was aware of the cassette interchangeability with 11 speed drivetrains so I suppose its a non issue when it comes to using a Campy wheel in a Shimano/Sram drivetrain (or vice versa). Good point. I was referring more to not being able to use your Campy cassette on a borrowed wheel with a Shimano freehub, or if you need to get a replacement cassette in a snap for your campy wheel, etc. Maybe those are edge cases for most folks but they are factors that came into play for me when all my bikes were Campy outfitted yet all my friends (and fellow racers) bikes were Shimano / Sram :-)

[dogrange]

Long time shimano user here, but gradually switching over to campy after trying it on my last new bike. Shimano shifters have gotten steadily more plasticky and mushy feeling since 7800, so the tactile quality of the Campy shifters is much appreciated. The 785 levers were the last straw for me, tons of slop with those. The chains and cassettes are interchangeable- running a SR crank with a DA9000 drivetrain on my rando bike ind it is perfect, and have used many shimano wheels on my SR bike with no issues.


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[R3awak3n]

its been said but my complaints with campy were the 29T cassette limit and the price of the cassettes. Now that they are interchangeable with shimano, I just get ultegra cassettes. Cheap, light and excellent. I always got KMC chains so no need for the silly campy chain breaker.

And also as already mentioned there is now a mid cage derailleur for all the groups. Potenza, Centaur, Chorus, Record and SR so a 32T cassette is now possible with any group.

I like the new campy crank, looks great on modern bikes but there is nothing that tells you you can't run an older gen crank on the new groups... they are easily available still. The new campy derailleur is also very nice, worth it IMO so I would always buy the 2015+ campy over the older versions. RD is also a different design but I don't notice as much difference as with the excellent FD shifting.

[Black Dog]

Originally Posted by R3awak3n

its been said but my complaints with campy were the 29T cassette limit and the price of the cassettes. Now that they are interchangeable with shimano, I just get ultegra cassettes. Cheap, light and excellent. I always got KMC chains so no need for the silly campy chain breaker.

And also as already mentioned there is now a mid cage derailleur for all the groups. Potenza, Centaur, Chorus, Record and SR so a 32T cassette is now possible with any group.

I like the new campy crank, looks great on modern bikes but there is nothing that tells you you can't run an older gen crank on the new groups... they are easily available still. The new campy derailleur is also very nice, worth it IMO so I would always buy the 2015+ campy over the older versions. RD is also a different design but I don't notice as much difference as with the excellent FD shifting.

Campy compatable chain tools are certainly no longer very expensive. However, I use a quick link on my campy chains. I have seen 30 tooth cassettes run with zero issues on campy and even 32 (for 32 YMMV).

[beeatnik]

R8000 is the best value in "premium" groups. If you're looking to build up a 5th or 6th bike and if you value your time and money, it's the way to go. What's impressed me about 8000 is how close it is to 9100 in function and finish. The 9100 calipers are best rim brakes on the market and 8000 are a close 2nd. The derailleurs are also pretty cool. However, as R3awak3n mentioned, the aesthetics don't work for every frame. So, go Chorus for a pretty or special bike (one on which you can be more indulgent) and go for 8000 on an utilitarian machine.

[tylercheung]

Ah ok. Much to mull over...campy parts compatible with Shimano cassettes?!?! Whoa!

[pasadena]

beeat
you are too spoiled!

Originally Posted by beeatnik

R8000 is the best value in "premium" groups. If you're looking to build up a 5th or 6th bike and if you value your time and money, it's the way to go. What's impressed me about 8000 is how close it is to 9100 in function and finish. The 9100 calipers are best rim brakes on the market and 8000 are a close 2nd. The derailleurs are also pretty cool. However, as R3awak3n mentioned, the aesthetics don't work for every frame. So, go Chorus for a pretty or special bike (one on which you can be more indulgent) and go for 8000 on an utilitarian machine.

[Dave M]

Chorus, no question.