Re-thinking Rapha quality commitment and customer service

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Or this

https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/stories/rapha-foundation

Again, I rather see them do this ——-^ than have an anything-goes warranty program. Not saying they cannot do both. But I rather they use some of their profits to help those who cannot.

BTW Rapha’s quality has always been hit or miss.

Well then, also again, I do not feel that any "philanthropic pursuits" or "greater good" arguments can or should be justified by inferior service and/or quality, or that physical quality and service be made sacrificial, subservient aspects of the metaphysical id card. They should be at least independent branches, one hopes, but more important both expressions of a single, congruent philosophy. This does not seem to be quite the case here, and there really shouldn't be a "but/either/or" as any part of it, imo.

Patagonia (as I stated above from my own experiences) has equally or arguably more beneficial philanthropic programs AND a better, more humane, customer service program. I would bet that other companies do as well.

And, yes, in fact I personally would prefer that Rapha take care of tv_vt and others better, first and as policy, and not simply abandon him/them on the "greater good" battlefield and so not do anything to reinforce and retain the relationship (especially a loyal, long-term, repeat customer) while simultaneously patting themselves/being patted on the back for being somehow so very altruistic. Pretty ironic....

But enough; Rapha "discussions" are far too often like this, and quickly become too tedious, so to each their own really.

Good luck, op. /

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

Well then, also again, I do not feel that any "philanthropic pursuits" or "greater good" arguments can or should be justified by inferior service and/or quality, or that physical quality and service be made sacrificial, subservient aspects of the metaphysical id card. They should be at least independent branches, one hopes, but more important both expressions of a single, congruent philosophy. This does not seem to be quite the case here, and there really shouldn't be a "but/either/or" as any part of it, imo.

Patagonia (as I stated above from my own experiences) has equally or arguably more beneficial philanthropic programs AND a better, more humane, customer service program. I would bet that other companies do as well.

And, yes, in fact I personally would prefer that Rapha take care of tv_vt and others better, first and as policy, and not simply abandon him/them on the "greater good" battlefield and so not do anything to reinforce and retain the relationship (especially a loyal, long-term, repeat customer) while simultaneously patting themselves/being patted on the back for being somehow so very altruistic. Pretty ironic....

But enough; Rapha "discussions" are far too often like this, and quickly become too tedious, so to each their own really.

Good luck, op. /

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities. In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. That’s why they have a great warranty and can afford to have a great warranty (there is a case study about this in some academic journal as I recall). When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities. That’s why they are probably backtracking on their warranty. 18 months is a long time to get a replacement on something like a bib.

If the OP is looking for a high quality durable brand bib. Checkout Q365. Their bibs last forever.

[Dino Suegiù]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities.

Ours was, extensively in fact. Many other people's too.

Originally Posted by joosttx

In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities.

I would bet that surfers do.
But either way, I have to say, I really do love the irony....

[joosttx]

Originally Posted by Dino Suegiù

Ours was, extensively in fact. Many other people's too.



I would bet that surfers do.
But either way, I have to say, I really do love the irony....

Surfers don’t put on wetsuits to get coffee.
Cyclists don’t put on bibs to get coffee.

Apologies for being nuanced.

[paredown]

My counter story--involves Ecco shoes, who have always has a 1 year warranty (I think) and a lifetime warranty against manufacturing defects.

I recently had a pair of Ecco soft-soled dress shoes--at least 10 years old, but rarely worn--where the soles disintegrated--some sort of composition material that disintegrated just from age. When I called them up to complain, they had me send them in, and then they gave me a coupon to purchase a new pair of shoes online. They did the same for a pair of the Track II vibram sole shoes--similar age with almost no wear and a similar disintegration problem. They did ask me to send the shoes in for a look--like a bike warranty--I'm assuming they took a look at the wear etc before making the determination.

I was already a lifetime customer, but it confirmed to me that they really stand behind their product (and they are a carriage trade brand like Rapha).

I agree with the OP--this is not much of a warranty for a very high-end product. What would it cost them to do a similar 'mail in for determination' program?

[pdonk]

Arctecyx is amazing.

Bought a jacket on sale. It was a three in one so wore the shell frequently. The gortex delaminated. I sent them pics and dropped off the jacket to a store. Had a new jacket in a week.

Now for above and beyond part.

Jacket was 5 years old.
Jacket was bought seriously on sale, thinking 70% off. So about $600.
Model no longer made so they offered me the current equivalent - which now retails for $2200.

They also will repair all of their gear.

Only limitation is a single replacement of item.

I also understand ll bean has a stricter return policy.

I'd suggest any company that warranties lycra would be in a hard spot due to level of care. Hard goods is likely easier.

[marciero]

18 month warranty?? Who knew? It would never have even occurred to me to try to return a pair of bibs after two full seasons. i guess i should read the fine print on my bibs.

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by joosttx

Little of Patagonia clothing is used for performance activities. In other words, Their clothes are not being stressed too much draped on the dude going to get coffee. That’s why they have a great warranty and can afford to have a great warranty (there is a case study about this in some academic journal as I recall). When Patagonia has clothing exclusively used for performance they hedge their warranty. Case in point, look at the warranty policy for their wetsuits (you don’t wear wetsuits to get coffee).

Rapha clothing almost exclusively is used in performance activities. That’s why they are probably backtracking on their warranty. 18 months is a long time to get a replacement on something like a bib.

If the OP is looking for a high quality durable brand bib. Checkout Q365. Their bibs last forever.

I’d argue summiting a mountain, which many people use Patagonia for, is demanding on clothing. Ten miles yesterday up a 13k ft mtn., forgot my Patagonia shirt was drying on backpack most the hike. It got stuck by pine trees, slid down dirt, snow, and rock...it was filthy by the end. If I had damaged it, I could’ve sent it to Patagonia and they would fix it.

The R1 I wore the entire hike had the friction of a backpack all day on it with a belt strap grinding away. Worse than normal because I run sometimes...it also slid on dirt, rocks, and snow.

My wife sent in her Patagonia down jacket that is maybe 8 years old with two holes by the pockets from normal use. They fixed both, fluffed up the down somehow and cleaned it nicely. For free...

[R3awak3n]

My experience is the opposite.

Pad on my classic bibs was coming undone, messaged rapha for repair and they said cant be repaired... they sent me $100 gift certificate. Those must have been over 2 years old so I was not expecting much.

My pro winter bibs had the same issue, this time though I had barely used them, they had 1 winter season and I did not even ride that much that winter. Messaged them, they sent me $300 gift voucher, also said cant be repaired. Now mind you I bought those on sale for $160.

CS has been impecable to me but I do wish they were repairing things.

People are coming down on OP but I think he is commenting on this because say 5 years ago rapha would repair all this stuff, even if stuff was 5 years old. I think they have realized that its a bad business move (and why almost no clothing store does it, save for like patagonia and a few others). So they have gone from actually repairing, to offering vouchers, to doing nothing about it.

As far as rapha quality, I would not say its hit and miss but more like hit, hit, hit and miss. I have been happy with it overall. The first bibs I mentioned had a lot of use for sure but the last ones didnt and is really the first piece of clothes I had problems with (actually I had some gloves ce indone but they were given to me second hand by a friend so wont count those)

[Likes2ridefar]

Originally Posted by pdonk

Arctecyx is amazing.

Bought a jacket on sale.

They also will repair all of their gear.

Only limitation is a single replacement of item.

I also understand ll bean has a stricter return policy.

I'd suggest any company that warranties lycra would be in a hard spot due to level of care. Hard goods is likely easier.

Similar arcteryx experience with multiple products. I got a hard shell half off, a few years later slipped while winter hiking and slid down some rough ice. It abused the front of the shell. I contacted them and they sent me a brand new jacket of the current model theta ar (way more $ and much nicer than what I had)

They replaced a soft shell that was purchased half off, maybe 8 years later, when it started to look pretty beat from years of winter commuting on a bike in NYC. I just wanted them fix a few things...

[CNY rider]

I have different expectations from a Patagonia jacket and a pair of cycling bibs.
I bought a new Patagonia shell last winter. I expect to be skiing in that shell 10 years from now. It’s a durable outerwear piece.
I don’t expect more than a couple of years of intensive use from any pair of bibs. They just wear out. Then I use them for commuter duty for a year or two and finally they go away completely.

[charliedid]

I thought we were talking about cycling clothing...

[Mikej]

I am wondering this: some of the warranty return experience posted here may not be the norm? Do these companies have a quota to go above and beyond and once they reach that it’s just too bad? Pretty sure everything wears out if you use it enough, therefore at some point if everyone called Patagonia because their jackets wore out or the down is sticking me or the zippers broke etc. they would be run out of business. I say buy a new set of bibs, you might find out just how nice a new set feels!

[gavingould]

bibs are a wear item, like brake pads.

however, 18mo i would consider a bit short for them to go severely downhill, unless that's the only bibs you have and they take a lot of mileage.
i have a set of Rapha Classic bibshorts that are probably in year 7 or 8, but in a rotation among others and i don't ride a ton. if you're behind me, please let me know if they're getting threadbare.

Patagonia has always been pretty solid for me - i've abused a couple of their jackets pretty badly while photographing cyclocross, but still nothing like mountaineering would. proper care and feeding as far as wash and re-proofing goes a long way.

[tv_vt]

Originally Posted by marciero

18 month warranty?? Who knew? It would never have even occurred to me to try to return a pair of bibs after two full seasons. i guess i should read the fine print on my bibs.

OP here. Let me be clear. I was not attempting to return these bibs. Rapha has a "Repair Service" and I was hoping they could be repaired. That's all. But they weren't interested.
These shorts have not seen heavy use. I have a ton of shorts in the rotation. I would guess certainly less than 50 wears each, more like worn less than 40 times. Washed cold in a laundry bag.