Foot Numbness

[wooger]

Have you tried altering q-factor with pedal spacers or longer axled pedals?

If you're anything but the slenderest racing snake of a build, you might benefit from wider spacing.

I bet your flats put your feet 5mm wider on each foot.

[carlucci1106]

Originally Posted by Turkle

Everyone is a little bit different. But my experience with any nerve / numbness issues is that the problem is ALWAYS in a place you didn't expect.

My foot numbness issues were caused by my lower back (!) being bent too far forward due to a saddle position that was too far rearward. It pinched some nerves in there when I was pedaling. By moving my seat forward a little bit, so my back could change position, the issue completely vanished. I was as surprised as anyone.

(This was after trying different saddles, different shoes, insoles, and cleat positions, and a host of other remedies that didn't work.)

I guess the point is that it's really tough to understand these issues and you're just going to have to use trial and error based on others' experiences until you find the actual locus of the problem.

+1

I moved from road clipless pedals to mtb and wide shoes, but that didn't totally eliminate the numbness, it just took longer before it set in.

Then I did some changes to my fit. My saddle always has to be jammed back on the rails to some degree. I should be on a custom frame with more reach per my saddle height, because I have a chimpanzee complex. Pictures of my riding position make me cringe. I'm essentially making a (<) sign with my body.

When centering my rails in the moderately setback post, and raising my handlebar height, I think the numbness has retreated almost entirely.

[sweitee]

Originally Posted by wooger

Have you tried altering q-factor with pedal spacers or longer axled pedals?

If you're anything but the slenderest racing snake of a build, you might benefit from wider spacing.

I bet your flats put your feet 5mm wider on each foot.

That's a good call! I have messed around with it a fair bit, mostly by just moving the cleats in as far as they'll go on my shoes with no success. I may be wrong, but I think there is more lateral adjustment available in SPD and other mountain bike cleats and I've had little success with the shoes and cleats I've tried.

The only other data point I have regarding q-factor is that I get the same problems when I ride indoors and I use a Keiser M3i spin bike which has a positively astounding q-factor of 195mm or more. This may just be so much wider that its not a useful reference though.

I have done my best to match the wear patterns from my flats to cleat positions on my cleats and they show a wider effective q-factor with a much more rearward spindle location.

[sweitee]

Originally Posted by carlucci1106

+1

I moved from road clipless pedals to mtb and wide shoes, but that didn't totally eliminate the numbness, it just took longer before it set in.

Then I did some changes to my fit. My saddle always has to be jammed back on the rails to some degree. I should be on a custom frame with more reach per my saddle height, because I have a chimpanzee complex. Pictures of my riding position make me cringe. I'm essentially making a (<) sign with my body.

When centering my rails in the moderately setback post, and raising my handlebar height, I think the numbness has retreated almost entirely.

I agree with you, I am tweaking and trying lots of different adjustments to figure out my best fit. The flat pedals don't really fix my problem either, they just let me move my feet around when the numbness starts and make it take longer as well.

I do think that I must be pinching a nerve somewhere upstream of my feet and locating that would alleviate the issue.

I think I really need to start a log of my bike measurements and record every change I make and how it effects my comfort.

I guess the changes you've made to your fit have opened up the < a bit to make that angle less acute?

[djg21]

Originally Posted by sweitee

I have also been trying both the Look Keo and the SPD-SL pedals recently and I think I have found the SPD-SLs more comfortable, either just because the cleat itself is larger, or because the larger cleat allows it to naturally be positioned slightly further back.

Are Time Xpresso cleats even longer than SPD-SLs?

I’m just switched the pedal bodies on my Garmin Vector 3s from Keo to SPD-SL. The SPD-SL cleats are probably 5 mm wider in each side. These seem to make a more solid connection and distribute pressure over a larger area.

I’m a firm believer in custom insoles and custom shoes for people which foot issues. It’s worth the expense to be able to ride in comfort. https://lamsoncycling.com/.

[sweitee]

Originally Posted by djg21

I’m just switched the pedal bodies on my Garmin Vector 3s from Keo to SPD-SL. The SPD-SL cleats are probably 5 mm wider in each side. These seem to make a more solid connection and distribute pressure over a larger area.

I’m a firm believer in custom insoles and custom shoes for people which foot issues. It’s worth the expense to be able to ride in comfort. https://lamsoncycling.com/.

I'm currently using the G8 Performance footbeds which are, while not totally custom, very modular. The company has been very attentive in sending follow up e-mails to access my fit and comfort which has helped, but I feel I have reached limit of value I can get from them. I am using the highest arch support offered in the most comfortable position I've tried.

I'd maybe go custom, but I simply do not have the money for that. I see that Lamson does offer orthotics though so I will look into that in the future I think.

I think that having a wider platform further back is the way forward for me currently. To that end, I have some Mid-Foot-Cycling cleat adapters on the way.

I'm really appreciative of all the advice and suggestions!

[carlucci1106]

Originally Posted by sweitee

I guess the changes you've made to your fit have opened up the < a bit to make that angle less acute?

Yeah, pretty much. Even though it feels a bit crowded lengthwise, it beats the foot numbness. I have been having some recent lower back pain, off the bike- this has been transient, but might be an indicator of something going on there. I have to hypothesize at some point in the past the "<" postition worked for me. I have been doing it for approx 20-something years with no numb toes.

I should add, I was getting numb hands too. That went away also. That likely has nothing to do with shoes/pedals, so another indicator, it's something more.

[djg21]

Originally Posted by sweitee

I'm currently using the G8 Performance footbeds which are, while not totally custom, very modular. The company has been very attentive in sending follow up e-mails to access my fit and comfort which has helped, but I feel I have reached limit of value I can get from them. I am using the highest arch support offered in the most comfortable position I've tried.

I'd maybe go custom, but I simply do not have the money for that. I see that Lamson does offer orthotics though so I will look into that in the future I think.

I think that having a wider platform further back is the way forward for me currently. To that end, I have some Mid-Foot-Cycling cleat adapters on the way.

I'm really appreciative of all the advice and suggestions!

All I can say is that Don does incredible work with fitting, and the cost of his shoes with custom insoles included is not outrageous when compared to other high end shoes. And they last for years. Maybe call him to see what he recommends and what he can do.

[John H.]

How well do your shoes fit? Is toe box a good match for the shape of your foot?

[edges900]

I have this problem too, and I've always attributed it to narrow shoes. Switching shoes helped (but did not completely solve the problem). Wearing thick socks in winter worsens it. Also looking for a solution..

[sweitee]

Originally Posted by edges900

I have this problem too, and I've always attributed it to narrow shoes. Switching shoes helped (but did not completely solve the problem). Wearing thick socks in winter worsens it. Also looking for a solution..

for me the mid foot adapters helped a lot. I think the G8 insoles were also helpful but I can't be sure. I also was able to get a deal with my local shop for some of the S-Works torches as I have up till now been using the Adidas Parlee shoes which are pretty narrow in comparison.

[Drewhartman]

a few things to consider:

Have you had your foot measured? one brands 43 can be a anothers 42. too narrow a shoe can cause problems.

Ive noticed a lot of people over the years in too narrow and too small a shoe, it's not un common for feet to be different sizes. Fit the largest foot. Bunyons etc can also present challenges

keep I mind your foot do swell during riding and its best to have some room in the shoe for foot growth.

video tape yourself doing a squat with no shoes on and look at what happen with your knees and arches. if your foot collapses under load of squat the same thing can happen on a hard ride. you may need more support

G8s are good insoles, moving the arch forward may work for some where moving the arch support more rearward work best for some.

moving your saddle back 5mm / 10mm or could take some pressure off your feet too.

once you make an adjustment its best to give your feet time to adapt to the new position.

starting out with a few easier rides and working your way up from there.

these are a few things that i've found helpful

[Alan]

I have been working with a PT who does bike fitting and she totally changed my cleat position. I was on Time RXS which are fairly narrow axle pedals and no adjustability laterally. I moved to Shimano long axle pedals and cleats set in so max amt of shoe to outside of pedal and it feels much better. I am 6' so tall but not really outside the normal range.

I know a fair amt about fitting but I am terrible at shoe/cleat setup. My fitter uses Dartfish like many others do to ck knee angles.

I have seen some videos where the fitters say that 4 out of 5 clients need the extended axle Shimano pedals.

I feel like if you have foot issues you have to start w correct positioning then go to insoles etc. I do have custom cycling insoles which also help but correct cleat and pedals is a starting point.